Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u52Kso0o011533 for ; Thu, 2 Jun 2016 22:54:50 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1b8ZZh-0006k3-3N for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:50:41 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1b8ZZg-0006ju-Kr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:50:40 +0100 Received: from blu004-omc1s14.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.25]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1b8ZZe-0000t5-AF for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Jun 2016 21:50:39 +0100 Received: from BLU436-SMTP55 ([65.55.116.9]) by BLU004-OMC1S14.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.23008); Thu, 2 Jun 2016 13:50:35 -0700 X-TMN: [WPK575ZzPC+ji6wsIYgfBdHS3NQK1zRO] X-Originating-Email: [jim.cowburn@outlook.com] Message-ID: From: James Cowburn To: References: <1685128417.20160531153441@chriswilson.tv> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 2 Jun 2016 21:50:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdG9DuUFBssQCln+Qw+vHP0Uv1MzeQAAUZpQ X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.1.7601.17609 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 02 Jun 2016 20:50:32.0638 (UTC) FILETIME=[67A3F5E0:01D1BD10] X-Scan-Signature: fe104f0109b1b9777bcb4182b547ef25 Subject: RE: LF: Earth modes and ebnaut? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_03BB_01D1BD18.C90DE1D0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 8211 ------=_NextPart_000_03BB_01D1BD18.C90DE1D0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit They weren't overly concerned when some of us were trying with normal rf transmission. We had to liaise with the team of storm watchers at the met office but it was all very relaxed Jim G7NKS _____ From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn Sent: 02 June 2016 21:30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Earth modes and ebnaut? Chris, Some years ago (before my stroke!) I had correspondence with OFCOM about earth-mode (through the ground conduction) communication at VLF. Basically they did not want to know and were not at all bothered unless "undue interference" was caused to other users. As basically pen pushing bureaucrats they had no interest at all. To be honest, they found it too hard! My distinct impression is go ahead and do not bother with licences! I have used earth-mode at up to about 18kHz, although I'd like to try higher frequencies at some point. In my experience pure earth-mode works best with LOW conductivity between the electrodes, so the signal spreads. Here, I am talking about conduction/induction communication. Stefan DK7FC used radiation I believe, using his earth-electrode "antenna" essentially as a loop radiator. This is my interpretation of how my earth-electrode "antenna" works at 136 and 472kHz. Don't quote me - this is my interpretation of what OFCOM said. It is not a legal statement. 73s Roger G3XBM On 31 May 2016 at 15:34, Chris Wilson wrote: 31 May 2016 Assuming it's legal to transmit VLF using earth modes, and this seems an grey area, is anyone using Ebnaut for this communication method? if I tried to master the complexities of it, not being very mathematically astute, would anyone be likely to hear or look for a signal? I am in north Shropshire, in open countryside, with plenty of space for well separated earth rods, and the means to drive them very deep into a soild of loam top, about a meter deep, then into what is normally very wet sand as the water table here is high for most of the year. Thanks -- Best regards, Chris 2E0ILY mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv ------=_NextPart_000_03BB_01D1BD18.C90DE1D0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

They weren't overly concerned when = some of us were trying with normal rf transmission.  We had to liaise with = the team of storm watchers at the met office but it was all very = relaxed

 

Jim G7NKS

From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org = [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] On Behalf Of Roger Lapthorn
Sent: 02 June 2016 = 21:30
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Earth = modes and ebnaut?

 

Chris,

Some years ago = (before my stroke!) I had correspondence with OFCOM about earth-mode (through the = ground conduction) communication at VLF. Basically they did not want to know and were not at all bothered unless = "undue interference" was caused to other users. As basically pen pushing bureaucrats they had no interest at = all. To be honest, they found it too hard!  My distinct impression is go = ahead and do not bother with = licences! I have used earth-mode at up to about 18kHz, although I'd like to try = higher frequencies at some point.

In my experience pure earth-mode works best with LOW = conductivity between the electrodes, so the signal = spreads.

 

Here, I am = talking about conduction/induction communication. Stefan DK7FC used radiation I = believe, using his earth-electrode "antenna" essentially as a loop radiator. = This is my interpretation of how my earth-electrode "antenna" works at = 136 and 472kHz.

Don't quote me = - this is my interpretation of what OFCOM said. It is not a legal = statement.

73s

Roger G3XBM

 

On 31 May 2016 at 15:34, Chris Wilson <chris@chriswilson.tv> wrote:

31 May = 2016


Assuming it's legal to transmit VLF using earth modes, and this = seems
an grey area, is anyone using Ebnaut for this communication method? = if
I tried to master the complexities of it, not being very
mathematically astute, would anyone be likely to hear or look for a
signal? I am in north Shropshire, in = open countryside, with plenty of
space for well separated earth rods, and the means to drive them = very
deep into a soild of loam top, about a meter deep, then into what is
normally very wet sand as the water table here is high for most of = the
year. Thanks



--


Best regards,
 Chris  2E0ILY        =                    mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv


 

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