Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u3TBdDuj003777 for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 13:39:13 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1aw6hV-00008n-6X for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:35:13 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1aw6hU-00008a-Pc for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:35:12 +0100 Received: from omr-a005e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.50]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1aw6hR-0004Fv-PR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 12:35:11 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.143]) by omr-a005e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 0D074380004F for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:35:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acb05b.mail.aol.com (core-acb05.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.5]) by mtaomg-mae01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 7A3483800028D for ; Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:35:07 -0400 (EDT) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 198.7.25.201 by webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com (205.188.20.34) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:35:07 -0400 Message-Id: <8D3702250C4AFEC-14C8-82556E@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.7.25.201] Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2016 07:35:07 -0400 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1461929708; bh=3sDyJKDkOFdkNkar6ONrd8//oNpokpMMayCYspizNQU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=FKjtd1zvkMKA3+IvmIHrJxs8KGkQs22UymxDr6kYtXKbk19HsWP5vvfj/aF2z28IU QhRoTwmDRX5ZP5PEYU5sV/pSlGZByeS0PIZcPhmQIgk7V+2qDs/2Y3jUUEJcQM4nFa ITBJnZqj4AvuZfDcdvM7lgObd2tjKupulAneJ8rM= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe8f572346eb79b3 X-Scan-Signature: 9bd342c7d74bc0c7d15d59c1164ca995 Subject: Re: LF: Paint buckets as coil forms Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D3702250DEDF17_14C8_FABC3E_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7918 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D3702250DEDF17_14C8_FABC3E_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" =20=20=20=20=20Hi=20Luis,=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20stacking=20= buckets=20into=20one=20another=20helps=20to=20increase=20the=20inductance=20beca= use=20the=20coil=20becomes=20shorter=20for=20a=20given=20number=20of=20turns.=C2= =A0Compared=20to=20a=20single=20layer=20solenoid,=20the=20advantage=C2=A0is=20th= us=20significantly=20less=20wire=20length=20and=20lower=20resistance.=C2=A0It=20= is=20also=20easy=20to=20adjust=20the=20inductance=20over=20a=20wide=20range=20us= ing=20variable=20spacing.=C2=A0The=20disadvantage=20is=20limited=20power=20capab= ility=20due=20to=20less=20effective=20heat=20removal=20from=20inner=20layers,=20= as=20well=20as=20high=20radial=20voltage=20gradients=20(especially=C2=A0around=20= the=20return=20wires=20between=20the=20layers,=20connecting=20the=20top=20of=20o= ne=20section=20to=20the=20bottom=20of=20the=20next).=C2=A0With=20my=20coil,=20I=20= can=20now=20safely=20run=20up=20to=200.4=20A=C2=A0into=20my=20270=20pF=C2=A0ante= nna.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AThe=20coil=20is=20made=20from=20seven=20standard=20polypro= pylene=20household=20buckets,=20each=C2=A0one=20carrying=C2=A0480=20turns=20of=20= 0.4mm=C2=A0wire.=C2=A0The=20spacing=C2=A0is=20adjusted=20by=20Lego=20blocks=20at= =20the=20rims=20of=20the=20bucket=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/= VLF_110304-06/coil_legospacers.jpg=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0ATo=C2=A0wind=20the=20coil=20= sections,=20I=20made=C2=A0a=20primitive=20jig=20with=20a=20rotatable=C2=A0dinner= -table=20serving=20plate=20on=20the=20floor=20and=20an=20old=C2=A0windshield-wip= er=20moter=C2=A0above:=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/VLF_110304-= 06/4TS%20and%20DF6NM%20at%20work.jpg=0D=0A=20=20Winding=20was=C2=A0done=20from=20= top=20to=20bottom=20(thin=20end=20first),=20over=20some=20straps=20of=20two-side= d=20sticky=20tape.=C2=A0After=20an=20initial=C2=A0slow=20learning=20phase,=20I=20= aquired=20some=20routine=20in=20laying=20the=20turns=20neatly=20side=20by=20side= ,=20and=20making=20the=20whole=20coil=20ended=20up=20taking=20about=20eight=20ho= urs=20alltogether.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0APaul=20has=20modeled=20the=20coil=C2=A0using= =20his=20LCnetgen=20software,=20which=20was=20able=20to=20predict=20the=20fundam= ental=20as=20well=C2=A0stray=20capacitances=20and=C2=A0higher-order=20resonances= =20up=20to=20several=20100=20kHz.=0D=0A=C2=A0http://abelian.org/lcnetgen/ex5.htm= l=0D=0ALuis,=20good=20luck=20with=20your=20build,=20we=20hope=20to=20see=20you=20= on=20Dreamer's=20band=20soon!=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A73,=20Markus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=20=20= =0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20Von:=20VIGILANT=20Luis=20Fe= rn=C3=A1n=20=20=20dez=20<luis@vigilant.es>An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_l= f_group@blacksheep.org>Verschickt:=20Fr,=2029=20Apr=202016=2010:55=20amBetref= f:=20LF:=20Paint=20buckets=20as=20coil=20forms=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= Hi=20VLF=0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20In=20my=20run=20for=20"the=20copper=20= thing"=20I=20called=20a=20friend=20which=20is=20in=20the=20industrial=20painting= =0D=0A=20=20=20He=20is=20going=20to=20provide=20me=20a=20couple=20of=20paint=20b= uckets=2029cm=20diameter=20by=2031cm=20high=0D=0A=20=20=20I=20plan=20to=20test=20= a=20couple=20of=20coils=20with=200.4mm=20enameled=20copper=20using=20this=20buck= ets=20as=20forms=0D=0A=20=20=20If=20it=20is=20not=20the=20best=20idea,=20please=20= tell=20me=20before=20doing=20it=20that=20way=0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20= From=20the=20coil=20calculators=20I=20can=20estimate=20750=20turns=20for=20a=20s= ingle=20layer=20coil=20which=20would=20be=20about=20105mH=0D=0A=20=20=20The=20bu= ckets=20can=20be=20plugged=20one=20inside=20the=20other.=20Similar=20as=20Markus= /Stefan=20Yogourt=20containers=0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20Can=20this=20s= tacking=20provide=20an=20increase=20of=20inductance=20??=20Something=20aprox=20t= o=20have=20a=20multi=20layer=20coil=20?=0D=0A=20=20=20Not=20counting=20any=20hel= p=20from=20ferrite=20cores=20dopping=20....=20I'm=20afraid=20that=20more=20than=20= eight=20bucket=20coils=20will=20be=20needed=0D=0A=20=20=20to=20reach=20over=2080= 0mH.=20A=20lot=20of=20copper=20wire=20and=20time=20to=20wound=20it=C2=A0indeed=20= =0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20Multi=20layer=20winding=20with=200.4mm=20wir= e=20looks=20like=20something=20really=20hard=20for=20me.=20Don=C2=B4t=20know=20i= t=20ir=20really=20worths=20the=20effort=0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20Any=20= ideas=20for=20a=20proper=20music=20track=C2=A0during=20the=20winding=20process=20= ??=20Spherics=20perhaps=20?=20;-)=0D=0A=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=2073=20= de=20Luis=0D=0A=20=20=20EA5DOM=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20= =20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D3702250DEDF17_14C8_FABC3E_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AHi=20Luis,=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A =0D= =0A=20=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20stacking=20buckets=20into=20one=20another=20helps=20to=20increase=20the=20i= nductance=20because=20the=20coil=20becomes=20shorter=20for=20a=20given=20number=20= of=20turns. Compared=20to=20a=20single=20layer=20solenoid,=20the=20advantag= e is=20thus=20significantly=20less=20wire=20length=20and=20lower=20resistan= ce. It=20is=20also=20easy=20to=20adjust=20the=20inductance=20over=20a=20wid= e=20range=20using=20variable=20spacing. The=20disadvantage=20is=20limited=20= power=20capability=20due=20to=20less=20effective=20heat=20removal=20from=20inner= =20layers,=20as=20well=20as=20high=20radial=20voltage=20gradients=20(especially&= nbsp;around=20the=20return=20wires=20between=20the=20layers,=20connecting=20the=20= top=20of=20one=20section=20to=20the=20bottom=20of=20the=20next). With=20my=20= coil,=20I=20can=20now=20safely=20run=20up=20to=200.4=20A into=20my=20270=20= pF antenna.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AThe=20coil=20is=20made=20from=20seven=20standard=20polypropylene= =20household=20buckets,=20each one=20carrying 480=20turns=20of=200.4mm=  wire. The=20spacing is=20adjusted=20by=20Lego=20blocks=20at=20th= e=20rims=20of=20the=20bucket =0D=0A=0D=0A http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/VLF_110304-06/coil_legospacers.jpg=0D= =0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0ATo w= ind=20the=20coil=20sections,=20I=20made a=20primitive=20jig=20with=20a=20ro= tatable dinner-table=20serving=20plate=20on=20the=20floor=20and=20an=20old&= nbsp;windshield-wiper=20moter above:=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A http://df6nm.bplaced.net/VLF/VLF_110304-06/4T= S%20and%20DF6NM%20at%20work.jpg=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0AWi= nding=20was done=20from=20top=20to=20bottom=20(thin=20end=20first),=20over=20= some=20straps=20of=20two-sided=20sticky=20tape. After=20an=20initial s= low=20learning=20phase,=20I=20aquired=20some=20routine=20in=20laying=20the=20tur= ns=20neatly=20side=20by=20side,=20and=20making=20the=20whole=20coil=20ended=20up= =20taking=20about=20eight=20hours=20alltogether.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0APaul=20has=20modeled=20the=20coi= l using=20his=20LCnetgen=20software,=20which=20was=20able=20to=20predict=20= the=20fundamental=20as=20well stray=20capacitances=20and higher-order=20= resonances=20up=20to=20several=20100=20kHz.=0D=0A=0D=0A=  http://ab= elian.org/lcnetgen/ex5.html=0D=0A=0D=0ALuis,=20good=20luck=20with=20your=20build,=20we=20hope=20to=20see=20you=20= on=20Dreamer's=20band=20soon!=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A=0D=0A73,=20Markus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilun= g-----=20Von:=20VIGILANT=20Luis=20Fern=C3=A1n=20=20=20dez=20&l= t;luis@vigilant.es>An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>Verschickt:=20Fr,=2029=20Apr=202016=2010:55=20= amBetreff:=20LF:=20Paint=20buckets=20as=20coil=20forms=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0AHi=20VLF=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=  =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AIn=20my=20run=20for=20"the=20copper=20= thing"=20I=20called=20a=20friend=20which=20is=20in=20the=20industrial=20painting= =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AHe=20is=20going=20to=20provide=20me=20a=20couple=20of=20paint=20buckets= =2029cm=20diameter=20by=2031cm=20high=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AI=20plan=20to=20test=20a=20couple=20= of=20coils=20with=200.4mm=20enameled=20copper=20using=20this=20buckets=20as=20fo= rms=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AIf=20it=20is=20not=20the=20best=20idea,=20please=20tell=20me=20befor= e=20doing=20it=20that=20way=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A= From=20the=20coil=20calculators=20= I=20can=20estimate=20750=20turns=20for=20a=20single=20layer=20coil=20which=20wou= ld=20be=20about=20105mH=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AThe=20buckets=20can=20be=20plugged=20one=20insid= e=20the=20other.=20Similar=20as=20Markus/Stefan=20Yogourt=20containers=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A<= /font> =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0ACan=20this=20stacking=20provide=20an=20increase=20of=20inductance=20= ??=20Something=20aprox=20to=20have=20a=20multi=20layer=20coil=20?<= /div>=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0ANot=20= counting=20any=20help=20from=20ferrite=20cores=20dopping=20....=20I'm=20afraid=20= that=20more=20than=20eight=20bucket=20coils=20will=20be=20needed=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0Ato=20re= ach=20over=20800mH.=20A=20lot=20of=20copper=20wire=20and=20time=20to=20wound=20i= t indeed=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AMulti=20layer=20winding=20with=200.4mm=20= wire=20looks=20like=20something=20really=20hard=20for=20me.=20Don=C2=B4t=20know=20= it=20ir=20really=20worths=20the=20effort=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=  =0D=0A= =20=20=20=0D=0AAny=20ideas=20for=20= a=20proper=20music=20track during=20the=20winding=20process=20??=20Spherics= =20perhaps=20?=20;-)=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=  =0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A73=20de=20Luis=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0AEA5DOM=0D=0A=20=20<= /div>=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20= =20 ----------MB_8D3702250DEDF17_14C8_FABC3E_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com--