Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u3PET4cx024283 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 16:29:05 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1auhRl-0004VS-Ie for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:25:09 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1auhRl-0004VJ-4U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:25:09 +0100 Received: from omr-a019e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.67]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1auhRh-00035d-GH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 15:25:08 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aac01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aac01.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.35]) by omr-a019e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 4BE95380004D for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:25:03 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-ace10d.mail.aol.com (core-ace10.mail.aol.com [172.27.23.10]) by mtaomg-aac01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id E398438000082 for ; Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:25:02 -0400 (EDT) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 198.7.24.45 by webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com (205.188.128.64) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:25:02 -0400 Message-Id: <8D36D1563E694FF-18C0-50301@webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [198.7.24.45] Date: Mon, 25 Apr 2016 10:25:02 -0400 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1461594303; bh=OWavQgXT6nsHNEGH3S36v2BsJFK1HjrEk+T6YuD72dM=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=GtGeD9NDsYAony+MoANbsPwdBMVZOZIwok2ujY3TTo1AKCsjpCxG6vbD14ULIRiwW Ovbv2pyUnWl+mYL3r1xeifmL552AroXXNFY+kQwjzsINO5+lT7hDXfQsfyXENZEW/z CQLh8/HpGLuOxB6aN9h8+GfqWelBNre6tCjRMtoQ= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b0223571e28be245b X-Scan-Signature: b45446db24846e84db90eb694609e205 Subject: Re: LF: Dirty signal Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D36D1563F9A007_18C0_9EA4A_webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7849 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D36D1563F9A007_18C0_9EA4A_webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi=20Chris,=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0Aas=20WSPR=20is=20a=20constant=20envelope=20signal,=20= overdriving=20the=20TX=20Audio=20would=20not=20produce=20intermodulation=20but=20= only=20audio=20harmonics.=20With=20a=20fundamental=20near=201.5=20kHz,=20the=20o= dd=20harmonics=20at=204.5=20kHz=20etc.=20will=20be=20too=20far=20outside=20the=20= passband=20of=20an=20SSB=20transmitter=20to=20cause=20noticable=20contamination.= =0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AHowever=20this=20may=20not=20be=20the=20whole=20truth:=20If=20= the=20clipping=20already=20takes=20place=20in=20the=20digital=20domain=20(i.e.=20= before=20the=20DAC=20and=20antialias=20filter),=20we=E2=80=99d=20still=20have=20= the=20same=20harmonics=20but=20they=20could=20be=20aliased=20down=20with=20the=20= samplerate.=20For=20example,=20a=20clipped=201.51=20kHz=20signal=20contains=20co= mponents=20at=207f=20(10.57=20kHz)=20and=209f=20(13.59)=20kHz.=20With=2012=20kHz= =20samplerate,=20these=20could=20be=20folded=20back=20to=201.43=20and=201.59=20k= Hz,=20and=20thus=20create=20weak=20unwanted=20sidebands=20near=20the=20desired=20= output=20frequency.=20BTW=20the=20very=20same=20effect=20can=20happen=20on=20the= =20receive=20side=20when=20overdriving=20the=20ADC.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0ABest=2073,=0D= =0AMarkus=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AVon:=20Chris=20WilsonGesendet= :=20Montag,=2025.=20April=202016=2013:38An:=20rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgBetref= f:=20LF:=20Dirty=20signal=0D=0A=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A25=20April=202016=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D= =0A=C2=A0=0D=0AHad=20a=20report=20that=20my=20LF=20WSPR2=20signal=20was=20dirty=20= with=20massive=20side=20bands=0D=0Aon=20Sunday.=20I=20had=20a=20look=20at=20my=20= setup=20today=20found=20Windows=20had=20decided=20to=0D=0Aup=20the=20audio=20lev= el=20from=20WSPR=20to=20maximum=20into=20the=20TS-590=20and=20scoping=0D=0Athe=20= output=20of=20the=20pre=20amp=20and=20frequency=20doubler=20before=20my=20G3YXM=20= amp=0D=0Ashowed=20it=20looking=20very=20ropey=20indeed.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AI=20res= et=20it=20and=20did=20a=20couple=20of=20normal=20WSPR2=20transmissions=20intersp= ersed=0D=0Awith=20using=20the=20WSPR=20TUNE=20function,=20whilst=20watching=20on= =20the=20G3XXM=20and=0D=0AG4WGT=20LF=20grabbers.=20I=20am=20no=20expert=20whatso= ever,=20but=20it=20doesn't=20look=20bad=0D=0Anow=20to=20me.=20Is=20this=20an=20a= dequate=20test=20to=20make=20and=20to=20assume=20things=20are=0D=0Anow=20OK?=20T= hanks.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AScreenshots=20are=20at=20http://www.chriswilson.tv/signa= ls/signals.html=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A--=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A= =C2=A0=0D=0ABest=20regards,=0D=0A=20Chris=C2=A0=202E0ILY=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0mailto:chris@chriswilson.t= v=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=20My=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20part=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20time=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =20LF=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20grabber=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=20is=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20at=0D=0A=20http://www.ch= riswilson.tv/grabber.html=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=20= =0D=0A=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D36D1563F9A007_18C0_9EA4A_webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0AHi=20Chris,=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0A=  =0D=0A=0D=0Aas=20WSPR=20is=20a=20constant=20envelo= pe=20signal,=20overdriving=20the=20TX=20Audio=20would=20not=20produce=20intermod= ulation=20but=20only=20audio=20harmonics.=20With=20a=20fundamental=20near=201.5=20= kHz,=20the=20odd=20harmonics=20at=204.5=20kHz=20etc.=20will=20be=20too=20far=20o= utside=20the=20passband=20of=20an=20SSB=20transmitter=20to=20cause=20noticable=20= contamination.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AHoweve= r=20this=20may=20not=20be=20the=20whole=20truth:=20If=20the=20clipping=20already= =20takes=20place=20in=20the=20digital=20domain=20(i.e.=20before=20the=20DAC=20an= d=20antialias=20filter),=20we=E2=80=99d=20still=20have=20the=20same=20harmonics=20= but=20they=20could=20be=20aliased=20down=20with=20the=20samplerate.=20For=20exam= ple,=20a=20clipped=201.51=20kHz=20signal=20contains=20components=20at=207f=20(10= .57=20kHz)=20and=209f=20(13.59)=20kHz.=20With=2012=20kHz=20samplerate,=20these=20= could=20be=20folded=20back=20to=201.43=20and=201.59=20kHz,=20and=20thus=20create= =20weak=20unwanted=20sidebands=20near=20the=20desired=20output=20frequency.=20BT= W=20the=20very=20same=20effect=20can=20happen=20on=20the=20receive=20side=20when= =20overdriving=20the=20ADC.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0ABest=2073,=0D=0A=0D=0AMarkus=0D=0A=0D=0A = ;=0D=0A=0D=0A = =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A<= div=20style=3D"border-width:=201pt=20medium=20medium;=20border-style:=20solid=20= none=20none;=20border-color:=20rgb(225,=20225,=20225)=20currentColor=20currentCo= lor;=20padding:=203pt=200cm=200cm;=20mso-element:=20para-border-div;"=20abp=3D"5= 96">=0D=0AVon:=20Chris=20WilsonGesendet:=20Montag,=2025.=20April=202016=2013:38= An:=20rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgBe= treff:=20LF:=20Dirty=20signal=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A25=20April=202016=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AHad=20a=20report=20that=20my=20LF=20WSPR2=20signal=20was=20dirty=20with= =20massive=20side=20bands=0D=0A=0D=0Aon=20Sunday.=20I=20had=20a=20look=20at=20my=20setup=20today=20found=20= Windows=20had=20decided=20to=0D=0A=0D=0Aup=20the=20audio=20level=20from=20WSPR=20to=20maximum=20into=20th= e=20TS-590=20and=20scoping=0D=0A=0D=0Athe=20output=20of=20the=20pre=20amp=20and=20frequency=20doubler=20be= fore=20my=20G3YXM=20amp=0D=0A=0D=0Ashowed=20it=20looking=20very=20ropey=20indeed.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AI=20reset=20it=20and=20did=20a=20couple=20of=20= normal=20WSPR2=20transmissions=20interspersed=0D=0A=0D=0Awith=20using=20the=20WSPR=20TUNE=20function,=20w= hilst=20watching=20on=20the=20G3XXM=20and=0D=0A=0D=0AG4WGT=20LF=20grabbers.=20I=20am=20no=20expert=20what= soever,=20but=20it=20doesn't=20look=20bad=0D=0A=0D=0Anow=20to=20me.=20Is=20this=20an=20adequate=20test=20= to=20make=20and=20to=20assume=20things=20are=0D=0A=0D=0Anow=20OK?=20Thanks.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AScreenshots=20are=20at=20http://www= .chriswilson.tv/signals/signals.html=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A--=20=0D=0A=0D=0A&nb= sp;=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0ABest=20regards,=0D=0A=0D=0A=20Chris =20= 2E0ILY       =20     = ;             &= nbsp;mailto:chris@chris= wilson.tv=0D=0A=0D=0A=  =0D=0A=0D=0A=20My&n= bsp;      =20part     &nb= sp; =20time       =20LF   = ;    =20grabber      =20is&nbs= p;     =20at=0D=0A=0D=0A=20http://www.chriswilson.tv/grabber.html= =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20 ----------MB_8D36D1563F9A007_18C0_9EA4A_webmail-vd022.sysops.aol.com--