Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1002; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u3K8EOH9008234 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 10:14:24 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1asnAN-00079C-AP for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 09:07:19 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1asnAM-000793-Hw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 09:07:18 +0100 Received: from omr-m014e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.13]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.87) (envelope-from ) id 1asnAJ-0007Qf-Hv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 09:07:17 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.80]) by omr-m014e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 386EB38000AD for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:07:12 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-acb06g.mail.aol.com (core-acb06.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.6]) by mtaomg-aag02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 14E1838000081 for ; Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:07:12 -0400 (EDT) References: <04cf01d19a81$4f3950b0$edabf210$@comcast.net> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <04cf01d19a81$4f3950b0$edabf210$@comcast.net> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 108.161.250.51 by webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com (64.12.254.142) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:07:12 -0400 Message-Id: <8D368F2C6FE3E50-1210-CC6C@webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [108.161.250.51] Date: Wed, 20 Apr 2016 04:07:11 -0400 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1461139632; bh=mAFyh/PlyV2+DWUi/hokJNX9DaGjYSferVLjrNUGJ8A=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=41nNUEoIqr/dOOwGsl5bHRQsWw85M05bEkcgBCuk/mXII7EeFQ/7G/ghH6aanzZAR S10gJtw5BE3NvVssL/3S8iAS/BZ1cCIcVgFH4F2gU06Gcsq8vm3DRs2R6DFiRx+1Cf RpTNZ3mLRslNyoVsjGhlwjZxQPARJP086qCf03xY= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7e50571738b04dbc X-Scan-Signature: cbf9d9751ac5f32708197d03fa6d8d74 Subject: Re: LF: RE: 8270.0025 Tuesday Apr 19 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D368F2C7114958_1210_FFB1_webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7793 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D368F2C7114958_1210_FFB1_webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Hi=20Jim,=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0Athe=20transmit=20antenna=20is=20physically=20larger:=20= The=20apex=20of=20the=20topload=20is=20at=2021=20m=20above=20ground=20or=2012=20= m=20above=20our=C2=A0rooftop.=20But=20the=20wires=C2=A0are=20sloping=20downward=20= at=20steep=20angles,=20and=20the=20antenna=20is=20partly=20shielded=20by=20surro= unding=20houses=20and=20trees.=20The=20effective=20height=20was=20measured=C2=A0= =C2=A0as=208.7=20m=20at=20139=20kHz=20by=20comparison=20of=20received=20open-cir= cuit=20voltage=20versus=20a=20small=20nonresonant=20loop.=20I=20believe=20that=C2= =A0effective=20height=20may=20be=20about=2020%=20lower=20at=C2=A0VLF=20due=20to=20= more=20effective=20shielding=C2=A0from=20resistive=20objects,=20but=20this=C2=A0= difference=20has=20not=20been=20measured=C2=A0so=20it's=20just=20a=20guess.=C2=A0= =0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AThanks=20Paul=20for=20the=C2=A0comparison=20and=20valuable=20d= etails=20regarding=C2=A0spherics=20blanking.=0D=0A=C2=A0Jim,=C2=A0any=20plans=20= for=20VLF=20activities=20from=20your=20end?=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A73,=20Markus=0D=0A=C2= =A0=0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20Von:=20hvanesce=20<hvane= sce@comcast.net>An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>Ver= schickt:=20Di,=2019=20Apr=202016=2011:22=20pmBetreff:=20LF:=20RE:=208270.0025=20= Tuesday=20Apr=2019=20=20Markus,=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0ANice=20signal!=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D= =0AA=20question=20perhaps=20for=20Paul=20or=20yourself=20follows:=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D= =0AAt=20~0.22=20fT=20(estimated=20from=20Paul=E2=80=99s=20spectrogram)=20I=20exp= ected=20to=20see=20>>=2010dB=20SNR=20in=20278uHz.=20=C2=A010dB=20SNR=20is=20= off=20scale=20so=20I=20looked=20at=20the=20on/off=20tails=20and=20noise,=20and=20= I=20still=20seemed=20to=20be=20off=20by=20a=20substantial=20amount=20in=20the=20= relationship=20of=20flux=20density=20and=20SNR=20in=20Paul=E2=80=99s=20spectrogr= am,=20but=20I=20had=20not=20factored=20in=20sferic=20noise=20and=20cancellation.= =0D=0AIf=20I=20assume=2030fT/rt-Hz=20for=20sferics,=20and=2020dB=20sferic=20nois= e=20cancellation=20in=20a=20clipper,=20then=20a=200.22fT=20signal=20(with=203.0=20= fT/rt-Hz=20sferic=20noise=20after=20clipping)=20would=20yield=20roughly=2013dB=20= SNR=20in=20278uHz,=20which=20seems=20consistent=20with=20Paul=E2=80=99s=20spectr= ogram.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AMy=20question=20is:=0D=0AIs=2020dB=20noise=20reduction=20= a=20reasonable=20estimate=20for=20the=20sferic=20clipper/blanker?=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D= =0AI=20think=20that=20I=20had=20become=20accustomed=20over=20the=20winter=20to=20= seeing=20near-preamp-noise-limited=20SNR=20on=20a=20number=20of=20VLF=20receiver= s,=20notwithstanding=20sub-fT/rt-Hz=20preamp=20noise=20levels,=20and=20that=20ma= y=20explain=20why=20I=20was=20expecting=20>>10dB=20SNR=20for=20~0.22fT=20a= nd=20noise=20in=20278=20uHz.=C2=A0=20If=20Paul=20considers=20the=20sferic=20clip= per/blanker=20noise=20reduction=20to=20be=20roughly=2020dB=20that=20would=20expl= ain=20my=20overestimate.=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0ANice=20signal=20from=20your=20(9m?)= =20antenna!=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A73,=0D=0AJim=20AA5BW=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A= From:=20owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20Markus=20VesterSent:=20Tuesday,=20April=2019,=2020= 16=201:25=20PMTo:=20rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgSubject:=20VLF:=208270.0025=20Tu= esday=20Apr=2019=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AAfter=20a=20couple=20of=20minor=20modification= s=20(different=20soundcard,=20thicker=20piece=20of=20wire=20from=20the=20top=20o= f=C2=A0the=20loading=20coil),=C2=A0I=C2=A0ran=20a=20test=C2=A0carrier=20from=201= 3:15=20to=2015:15=20UT.=20I=20briefly=20ventured=C2=A0pushing=20the=20drive=20up= =20to=200.42=20A=C2=A0(=3D=2030.0=20kV=20rms)=20with=20no=20adverse=20effects,=20= but=C2=A0then=20settled=20to=200.35=20A=20to=20have=20a=20bit=20of=20margin=20fo= r=20the=20long=20transmission.=20Unfortunately=20not=20much=20appeared=20in=20He= idelberg=20and=20Breclav=C2=A0in=20the=20upcoming=20afternoon=20QRN.=20But=C2=A0= then,=20looking=20at=20Paul's=20spectrogram=20saved=20my=20day:=20=0D=0A=0D=0Aht= tp://abelian.org/vlf/fbins.shtml#p=3D1461078000&b=3D110&s=3Dsp=0D=0A=0D=0A=C2=A0= =0D=0A=0D=0AAll=20the=20best,=0D=0A=0D=0AMarkus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D368F2C7114958_1210_FFB1_webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0AHi=20Ji= m,=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0Athe=20transmit=20antenna=20is=20physically=20larger= :=20The=20apex=20of=20the=20topload=20is=20at=2021=20m=20above=20ground=20or=201= 2=20m=20above=20our rooftop.=20But=20the=20wires are=20sloping=20downw= ard=20at=20steep=20angles,=20and=20the=20antenna=20is=20partly=20shielded=20by=20= surrounding=20houses=20and=20trees.=20The=20effective=20height=20was=20measured&= nbsp; as=208.7=20m=20at=20139=20kHz=20by=20comparison=20of=20received=20ope= n-circuit=20voltage=20versus=20a=20small=20nonresonant=20loop.=20I=20believe=20t= hat effective=20height=20may=20be=20about=2020%=20lower=20at VLF=20due= =20to=20more=20effective=20shielding from=20resistive=20objects,=20but=20th= is difference=20has=20not=20been=20measured so=20it's=20just=20a=20gue= ss. =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D= =0A=0D=0AThanks=20Paul=20for=20the comparison=20and=20va= luable=20details=20regarding spherics=20blanking.=0D=0A=0D=0A Jim, any=20plans=20for=20VLF=20activitie= s=20from=20your=20end?=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D= =0A73,=20Markus=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20Von:=20hvanesce=20<hvanesce@comcast.net>An:=20r= sgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>Verschickt:= =20Di,=2019=20Apr=202016=2011:22=20pmBetreff:=20LF:=20RE:=2082= 70.0025=20Tuesday=20Apr=2019=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A= =0D=0A=0D= =0AMarkus,=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0ANice=20signal!=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AA=20= question=20perhaps=20for=20Paul=20or=20yourself=20follows:=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A=0D=0AAt=20~0.22=20fT=20(estimated=20from=20Paul=E2=80=99s=20= spectrogram)=20I=20expected=20to=20see=20>>=2010dB=20SNR=20in=20278uHz.=20=  10dB=20SNR=20is=20off=20scale=20so=20I=20looked=20at=20the=20on/off=20tail= s=20and=20noise,=20and=20I=20still=20seemed=20to=20be=20off=20by=20a=20substanti= al=20amount=20in=20the=20relationship=20of=20flux=20density=20and=20SNR=20in=20P= aul=E2=80=99s=20spectrogram,=20but=20I=20had=20not=20factored=20in=20sferic=20no= ise=20and=20cancellation.=0D=0A=0D=0AIf=20I=20assume=2030fT/rt-Hz=20for=20sferics,=20and=2020dB=20sferic=20nois= e=20cancellation=20in=20a=20clipper,=20then=20a=200.22fT=20signal=20(with=203.0=20= fT/rt-Hz=20sferic=20noise=20after=20clipping)=20would=20yield=20roughly=2013dB=20= SNR=20in=20278uHz,=20which=20seems=20consistent=20with=20Paul=E2=80=99s=20spectr= ogram.=0D=0A=0D=0A=  = =0D=0A=0D=0AMy=20question=20is:= =0D=0A=0D=0AIs=2020dB=20noise=20reduct= ion=20a=20reasonable=20estimate=20for=20the=20sferic=20clipper/blanker?=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A= I=20think=20that=20I=20had=20become=20accustom= ed=20over=20the=20winter=20to=20seeing=20near-preamp-noise-limited=20SNR=20on=20= a=20number=20of=20VLF=20receivers,=20notwithstanding=20sub-fT/rt-Hz=20preamp=20n= oise=20levels,=20and=20that=20may=20explain=20why=20I=20was=20expecting=20>&g= t;10dB=20SNR=20for=20~0.22fT=20and=20noise=20in=20278=20uHz. =20If=20Paul=20= considers=20the=20sferic=20clipper/blanker=20noise=20reduction=20to=20be=20rough= ly=2020dB=20that=20would=20explain=20my=20overestimate.=20=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A=0D=0ANice=20signal=20from=20your=20(9m?)=20antenna!=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A= =0D=0A73,=0D=0A=0D=0AJim=20AA5BW=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AFrom:=20owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org<= /a>]=20On=20Behalf=20Of=20Markus=20Vester= Sent:=20Tuesday,=20April=2019,=202016=201:25=20PMTo:=20rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.orgSubject:=20VLF:=208270.0025=20Tuesday=20Apr=2019=0D=0A=0D=0A=  =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0A=0D=0AAft= er=20a=20couple=20of=20minor=20modifications=20(different=20soundcard,=20thicker= =20piece=20of=20wire=20from=20the=20top=20of the=20loading=20coil), I&= nbsp;ran=20a=20test carrier=20from=2013:15=20to=2015:15=20UT.=20I=20briefly= =20ventured pushing=20the=20drive=20up=20to=200.42=20A (=3D=2030.0=20k= V=20rms)=20with=20no=20adverse=20effects,=20but then=20settled=20to=200.35=20= A=20to=20have=20a=20bit=20of=20margin=20for=20the=20long=20transmission.=20Unfor= tunately=20not=20much=20appeared=20in=20Heidelberg=20and=20Breclav in=20the= =20upcoming=20afternoon=20QRN.=20But then,=20looking=20at=20Paul's=20spectr= ogram=20saved=20my=20day:=20=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D= =0Ahttp://abelian.org/vlf/fbins.shtml#p=3D1461078000&b=3D110&s=3D= sp=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AAll=20the=20best,=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0AMarkus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A&= nbsp;=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A= =20 ----------MB_8D368F2C7114958_1210_FFB1_webmail-vm149.sysops.aol.com--