Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1002; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TINY_FONT,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u22AQkTN014241 for ; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 11:26:47 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ab3vF-0006oA-28 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:22:25 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ab3vE-0006o1-Gu for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:22:24 +0000 Received: from mail-vk0-x234.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::234]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ab3vB-0003VF-JE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 10:22:23 +0000 Received: by mail-vk0-x234.google.com with SMTP id e6so196628384vkh.2 for ; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 02:22:21 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=akaFkH4Gxg8lglTN3UO0u7FR+6w1u7WK8zp7ct+JjxU=; b=CnO4wiTFIcnyWFk45jB7AvNfiUxXdVo6X0ouHX5XaBVd46QmLonZhPvvBDmm5/tHTh Hu1XX2dKWF0IPFfDdebS2lwmttuS7H7+4M6e/ARI8JhnXmgZd4fogtueETZYRYTvfHGf PPMzNmaBvCtF5CZ6T+/Sy32j+hYedHb1bj+LaXWAFpgE9OMbqH6tG6thLM1JOvVUW9RG OFucoYp1vpNwY/NWYIPvfT60EpVslXZ6jUiVZLCutgZAp8+tnIMWyFfknx1wwpzwo2mK aGE4LgOZ6M9+Pm/AkD7jrt3ZhQIGgTYl9JkxOhd6RpBZqHBesQ/4qCMA8AgmomuznVP5 L2AQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date :message-id:subject:from:to; bh=akaFkH4Gxg8lglTN3UO0u7FR+6w1u7WK8zp7ct+JjxU=; b=eFALxB/edluK54VUjFB1K5/G2Mjt4iHfiAe1nGiW5P7Q5ODBI0ZWs5G1oF8dIoQsLX WFNGUS3XH8i8TwtPNu6qmVTkdexbWbhfj0h2wd1G+sWmO8jXEcSlfTZ7If92yVyrTCtX RY9NYfKQcHoqoGhbXcTMYDKPXoam4KqLPkOjoswtwKVPgQ2NoXt/Fpht7Zg6E3VIoKq7 uEVG158XpQtY956yxhlTXQz/16rVbHgiYwZETBU6ALn2/KFpg1NkpxEKUYqbof+oBDy7 KV/KNWxTe/NI2CgnDubuFJwgvmn37XZgedm6UbTKVEu7jluTz/XrnQlEOs8G4E9tsc34 9kvg== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJJblOziqpA0QLKnT9RFUVl2EJ5efXQ/ZVtpX/JWZbmyv+curfTNbs7fZMuuD72L6vCgLmFSYd74PxZKQA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.31.146.2 with SMTP id u2mr16191721vkd.19.1456914139889; Wed, 02 Mar 2016 02:22:19 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.159.32.198 with HTTP; Wed, 2 Mar 2016 02:22:19 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: References: <56D520E2.4030107@gmx.de> <56D5E1B5.24188.BD1567@roelof.ndb.demon.nl> <62gdlbtll5e7auj8k9epknu8.1456861458799@email.android.com> <56D6056D.4035.1489A61@roelof.ndb.demon.nl> <001f01d17455$bcbfe5b0$363fb110$@no> Date: Wed, 2 Mar 2016 10:22:19 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Scan-Signature: c2475d419cec526a0a1d8689f82d5b7d Subject: LF: Re: [rsgb_lf_group] WD2XES WOLF Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a1143a7ecc6c8ca052d0e4144 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7161 --001a1143a7ecc6c8ca052d0e4144 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I wasn't transmitting. When I do, I always announce in advance on both LF Groups. We haven't yet investigated the slower speeds available in *WolfGUI*, the half and quarter speed options. Thoughts ? Will be back in a few days with more signals Andy G4JNT On 2 March 2016 at 09:45, Steve Elliston sgelliston@gmail.com [rsgb_lf_group] wrote: > > > Hello Jan, > me neither, maybe no one was transmitting...or they changed > freq...or...or... > 73 > Steve > G3XKR > > > On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, 'Jan Lustrup' j-lustru@online.no > [rsgb_lf_group] wrote: > >> >> >> Monitored 137.630 all night...no Wolf signals decoded here in JO28XJ. >> >> Jan LA3EQ >> >> >> >> *From:* rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk [mailto: >> rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk] >> *Sent:* 1. mars 2016 23:32 >> *To:* rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk >> *Subject:* Re: [rsgb_lf_group] WD2XES WOLF >> >> >> >> >> >> For DCF77 , read '39.... >> >> >> >> 'jnt >> >> >> >> >> >> On 1 March 2016 at 22:28, Andy Talbot wrote: >> >> Do you actually need to remove DCF77 from the passband at all? If you >> can turn the AGC off - if that is possible in the FT817 [*] - then use = the >> manual gain control so it is just short of overloading when the strong >> station keys. Just because an interferer *sounds* loud, doesn't mean >> its contribution in the processed bandwidth will be all that great. >> >> >> >> The DSP software optimally filters the signal it it trying to decode, an= d >> that isn't necessarily with any shape that looks like a classic bandpass >> filter. >> >> >> >> If you can't turn off AGC, ther eis another possibility. 've just done >> a quick experiment on my IC746 , leaking in a weak carrier at 137.63kHz = to >> find a tuning point that will work. >> >> >> >> By going to an SSB tuning point of 135.75kHz, it places the wanted >> signal towards the upper end of the passband, generating a tone at 1880H= z >> and DCF77 has disappeared down the edge of the SSB filter. Then to run = the >> decoder, just set its tone frequency to 1880. As mentioned, there are a= n >> infinite set of choices. (Although if you can only tune in 10Hz steps o= n >> the receiver, there are only a hundred or so choices) >> >> >> >> Other pepole use LSB for modes where polarity inversion is permissible. >> And this is where PSK score over MFSK modes as it is polarity insensitiv= e. >> Just like QRSS and Opera. You can't do that with WSPR et-all. >> (Although it wouldn't be a bad idea if the authors incorporated inverted >> audio in the latest WSJT-X suite. Might suggest it) >> >> >> >> SDRs., even basic soundcard based ones, do make life so very much easie= r >> >> >> >> Andy G4JNT >> >> >> >> [*] I do have an FT817, but can't be bovvered this time of night wadin= g >> through its menus and fiddly button sequences to see if that is possible >> >> >> >> On 1 March 2016 at 22:06, Simon Kennedy simon@thekennedys.info >> [rsgb_lf_group] wrote: >> >> >> >> Many thanks to everyone who replied to my question. I understand a lot >> more now! >> >> >> >> There were some interesting comments from Steve and Andy about filtering >> (or not) these narrow modes. I am using my 817 which doesn't have any >> filters but to exclude DCF39 from the passband I will need to use my Ft= 920 >> or maybe my HackRF. >> >> >> >> 73 Simon >> >> G0FCU. >> >> >> >> On 1 March 2016 at 21:11, 'Roelof Bakker' roelof@ndb.demon.nl >> [rsgb_lf_group] wrote: >> >> >> >> Hello Steve, >> >> I have never tried to phase to mini-whips, due to lack of real >> estate. However, a loop and a mini-whip connected to a MFJ1025 or a >> home made phaser gives a nice cardiod reception pattern. >> >> The downside is that at my location a loop receives much more local >> noise at VLF/LF/MF which spoils the fun. >> >> I am heavily involved in chasing NDB's and there are other tools >> besides antenna directivity to unearth a particular station. >> >> I use Linrad for the real difficult ones and aural copy can be >> achieved with an adjacent carrier less than 1 Hz away and mulitiple >> carriers within a 10 Hz wide filter. >> >> So after a lot of experiments, I have ended up with just one >> antenna! >> >> 73, >> Roelof, pa0rdt >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> > __._,_.___ > ------------------------------ > Posted by: Steve Elliston > ------------------------------ > Reply via web post > > =E2=80=A2 Reply to sender > > =E2=80=A2 Reply to group > > =E2=80=A2 Start a new topic > > =E2=80=A2 Messages in this topic > > (20) > Visit Your Group > > > - New Members > > 2 > > [image: Yahoo! Groups] > > =E2=80=A2 Privacy =E2=80=A2 > Unsubscribe > =E2= =80=A2 Terms > of Use > > . > > __,_._,___ > --001a1143a7ecc6c8ca052d0e4144 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I wasn't transmitting.
When I do, I alw= ays announce in advance on both LF Groups.

We have= n't yet investigated the slower speeds available =C2=A0in WolfGUI, the half and quarter speed options.
Thoughts ?
Will be back in a few days with more signals

Andy=C2=A0 G4JNT

On 2 March 2016 at 09:45, Steve Elliston sgelliston@gmail.com [rsgb_lf_group] <= rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk> wrote:
=20
=C2=A0
=20 =20

Hello Jan,
me neither, maybe no one was trans= mitting...or they changed freq...or...or...
73
Steve=C2= =A0
G3XKR


On Wed, Mar 2, 2016 at 7:32 AM, 'Jan L= ustrup' j-lustr= u@online.no [rsgb_lf_group] <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.c= o.uk> wrote:
=20
=C2=A0
=20 =20

Monitored 137.630 all night...no Wolf signals decoded=C2=A0 = here =C2=A0in JO28XJ.

Jan LA3EQ

=C2=A0

Fro= m: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogr= oups.co.uk [mailto:rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk]
Sent: 1. mars 2016 23:32
To: rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk
Subject: Re: [rsgb_lf_group] WD2XES WOLF

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

For DCF77 , read '39....

=C2=A0

'jnt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

On 1 March 2016 at 22:28, Andy Talbot <andy.g4jnt@gmail.com>= ; wrote:

Do you actually need to remove DCF77 from the passba= nd at all? =C2=A0 If you can turn the AGC off =C2=A0- if that is possible in the FT817 [*] - then use the manual gain control so it is just short of overloa= ding when the strong station keys. =C2=A0 Just because an interferer sounds loud, doesn't mean its contribution in the processed bandwidth will be = all that great.

=C2=A0

The DSP software optimally filters the signal it it = trying to decode, and that isn't necessarily with any shape that looks like a = classic bandpass filter.=C2=A0

=C2=A0

If you can't turn off AGC, ther eis another poss= ibility. =C2=A0 've just done a quick experiment on my IC746 , leaking in a weak= carrier at 137.63kHz to find a tuning point that will work.

=C2=A0

By going to an SSB tuning point of 135.75kHz, it =C2=A0places the wanted signal towards the upper end of the passband, generating a tone at 1880Hz and DCF77 has disappeared down the edge of the = SSB filter.=C2=A0 Then to run the decoder, just set its tone frequency to 1880.=C2=A0 As mentioned, there are an infinite set of choices. =C2=A0(Alth= ough if you can only tune in 10Hz steps on the receiver, there are only a hundre= d or so choices)

=C2=A0

Other pepole use LSB for modes where polarity invers= ion is permissible.=C2=A0 And this is where PSK score over MFSK modes as it is polarity insensitive. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Just like QRSS and Opera. =C2=A0 =C2=A0Y= ou can't do that with WSPR =C2=A0et-all. (Although it wouldn't be a ba= d idea if the authors incorporated inverted audio in the latest WSJT-X suite. =C2=A0 Might suggest it)

=C2=A0

SDRs., =C2=A0even basic soundcard based ones, do mak= e life so very much easier

=C2=A0

Andy =C2=A0G4JNT

=C2=A0

[*] =C2=A0 I do have an FT817, but can't be bovv= ered this time of night wading through its menus and fiddly button sequences to see i= f that is possible

=C2=A0

On 1 March 2016 at 22:06, Simon Kennedy simon@thekennedys.info [rsgb_lf_group] <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk> wrote:<= /p>

=C2=A0

Many thanks to everyone w= ho replied to my question. I understand a lot more now!

=C2=A0

There were some interesti= ng comments from Steve and Andy about filtering (or not) these narrow modes. I= am using my 817 which doesn't have any filters but to exclude DCF39 from t= he passband =C2=A0I will need to use my Ft920 or maybe my HackRF.

=C2=A0

73 Simon

G0FCU.

=C2=A0

On 1 March 2016 at 21:11,= 'Roelof Bakker' roelof= @ndb.demon.nl [rsgb_lf_group] <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk> wrote:<= /p>

=C2=A0

Hello Steve,

I have never tried to phase to mini-whips, due to lack of real
estate. However, a loop and a mini-whip connected to a MFJ1025 or a
home made phaser gives a nice cardiod reception pattern.

The downside is that at my location a loop receives much more local
noise at VLF/LF/MF which spoils the fun.

I am heavily involved in chasing NDB's and there are other tools
besides antenna directivity to unearth a particular station.

I use Linrad for the real difficult ones and aural copy can be
achieved with an adjacent carrier less than 1 Hz away and mulitiple
carriers within a 10 Hz wide filter.

So after a lot of experiments, I have ended up with just one
antenna!

73,
Roelof, pa0rdt

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

=20 =20
=20

=20 =20
__._,_.___
=20 =20 =20 =20
Posted by: Steve Elliston <sgelliston@gmail.com>
Repl= y via web post =E2=80=A2 Reply to sender =E2=80=A2 Reply to group =E2=80=A2 Start a new topic =E2=80=A2 Messages in this topic (20)
=20 =20
3D"Yahoo!
=E2=80=A2 Privacy =E2=80=A2 Unsubscribe =E2=80=A2 Terms of Use

=20 =20 =20 =20
=20
.
=
= =20
__,_._,___
=20

--001a1143a7ecc6c8ca052d0e4144--