Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_90_100,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u2RIAHGa025805 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 20:10:17 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1akF4Z-0004Hf-3j for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:05:59 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1akF4Y-0004HW-5X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:05:58 +0100 Received: from mail-vk0-x230.google.com ([2607:f8b0:400c:c05::230]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1akF4V-0002iD-8Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:05:57 +0100 Received: by mail-vk0-x230.google.com with SMTP id z68so134841031vkg.3 for ; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:05:54 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=5CWqluxen4QMyq8GiACYf3q6oFiWkcqExgjlSfTRQ7U=; b=goFj+nX5y8EGOiDcO5SUhh4U5gNEO23+qx4ROCI7YV9stkON8ECcYrdWKKwgoB6+/f /d3m861jkvDWQ858fzTJo7uvch9S/0TTKPQN2HrAmO2GDUZcN+VKV6+fVILIJ9aYO/Kp 69zK02athU90cqRnlQSeL7klTu6uEywgLGJf58G3FfI5XIhIej0OUU+4v61IfBOofTnr /wIfFXOv3fR0194pZpX5LII/5ZJx+KMBpV9IHy5ftGfU2K8Sl3c7c+DGg+bKV/O/utrz tmcYvQKBzHhJFjr8XmXg4TPC0eYQ2iMXQYyBe6JMBfDPzkcCt27YIXPU1ya9LwCrLn6O 9zdA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20130820; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:date:message-id:subject:from:to; bh=5CWqluxen4QMyq8GiACYf3q6oFiWkcqExgjlSfTRQ7U=; b=Ljf82LYgc4koYMlDJipmTHz8hGgS5J3f3/rcTTGYOB7eBnHn9NZ29MjdRBqnoZZA/x sYWZH0IcCmWsPV/b5BcUwJUqfMNw18uFKCARvjpJx/cncqj+UDpNdcpuSQmWxBcX5XM4 sOaaIz0sTkSB+tIKrgzwnfgKQNfay/HcBzSiovcXZrji+k/pjrz/9pKoOzGE14SCdLbk PEqdgGARU5OSs9RLT5/XsJz+HHVDUTh/PyWq3uzm46quFMl4KWQoFHUVh6kWCxBvjzYl 6hVJJHY46eURjsk8o3zNjIO8Q/qSXNM4X9EN5r13qchWFrLJJtmSQMl/Bgqi7rtXr9// I7Sw== X-Gm-Message-State: AD7BkJKagQnVmpn6zcpCko0eI2VycTGKmMOXruKOuQWEuqsMtEUjE1kVK7vi/Qva8oR4yac3h8nmoP9T2AfSDQ== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.176.2.231 with SMTP id 94mr10788154uah.106.1459101953310; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.159.32.198 with HTTP; Sun, 27 Mar 2016 11:05:53 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 27 Mar 2016 19:05:53 +0100 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk X-Scan-Signature: e66ca8bc0c8d28ffa0aaaf2f8f8b6345 Subject: Cheap and nasty sources - was LF: DK7FC WSPR bad quality problem Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a113d18d69e4930052f0ba5c1 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7486 --001a113d18d69e4930052f0ba5c1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 It is unfortunate these cheap and simple low power solutions have come-about at all. The originators who worked out how to generate a few milliwatts of Rf from very non-purpose designed hardware presumably never anticipated that eh great masses would end up connecting this unsuitable kit to high power amplifiers. I hope they only ever anticipated their being used for very low power uses. As for the R-PI, that really does look like a bad way of generating narrow band RF. I don't know the details of its internal hardare, but strongly suspect that it uses a jittering Fract-N route to generating arbitrary frequencies. Again, fine for a few milliwats of test signal, but certainly not for amplification to hundreds of milliwatts. If you want a decent high power source, use a DDS chip or a modern Fract-N synthesizer like the LMX2541. That device has an internal VCO and an output divider that allows it to generate as low as 35MHz - and then any external CMSO divider will allow you to go lower. And they are CLEAN - especially so when divided down to LF / HF Andy G4JNT On 27 March 2016 at 18:14, Graham wrote: > Andy, > > This time its not really Stefan's fault :-,) > > This is a problem , using the raspberry PI , the Pi processor uses > interrupts, which, cause the execution time of the timing loops to > vary slightly , > the 'small' time variations , produce side bands . > > This was evident during the development of a R-PI routine for > sending Opera , as the R-Pi support documentation is not particularly > comprehensive, its 'not' possible to fully address the i/o functions > and as such there exists a conflict with higher order irq requests . > Producing seemingly random widening of the spectrum, depending on > the irq deployments. > > Ie the pulse train suffers from timing jitter > > The alterative of the U3 beacon key'er , driving the DDS 'oscillator' > is a more elegant solution, but as noted by Andy [rad-com] some time > back, the later U3 with the PPL suffers from settling time issues , > when commanded with , step frequency changes. these sever to produce > sidebands , at the step changes. > > 73-G, > > > *From:* F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB > *Sent:* Saturday, March 26, 2016 8:36 PM > *To:* RSGB LF Group > *Subject:* LF: DK7FC WSPR bad quality problem > > Hello Stefan. > > > > I am sorry, but this evening you have a very poor quality WSPR signal on > MF with many splatters, I think it is perhaps due to an overload TX AF > level. > > > > That is not in phase with the normal ham spirit. So, please be kind to > stop now your transmission and correct this problem. > > > > On the way, can you say honnestly if your power is not over the legal > limit ? > > > > Sincerly yours and my best 73 de Andy. > > > > P.S. > > > > Have a look below at some reports last hour showing the problem : > > > > > > 2016-03-26 19:00 > > DK7FC > > 0.475683 > > +12 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > PI4THT > > JO32kf > > 336 > > 338 > > 2016-03-26 19:00 > > DK7FC > > 0.475783 > > -25 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > PI4THT > > JO32kf > > 336 > > 338 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475783 > > -23 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > PE1RKT > > JO22fb > > 418 > > 316 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475683 > > +14 > > 1 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > PE1RKT > > JO22fb > > 418 > > 316 > > 2016-03-26 18:40 > > DK7FC > > 0.475683 > > +12 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > LA8AV > > JO59cs > > 1153 > > 4 > > 2016-03-26 18:40 > > DK7FC > > 0.475783 > > -24 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > LA8AV > > JO59cs > > 1153 > > 4 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475783 > > -28 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > LA3JJ > > JO59bh > > 1102 > > 4 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475683 > > +10 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > LA3JJ > > JO59bh > > 1102 > > 4 > > 2016-03-26 18:40 > > DK7FC > > 0.475780 > > -28 > > 1 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > G3KEV > > IO94sh > > 829 > > 314 > > 2016-03-26 18:40 > > DK7FC > > 0.475679 > > +10 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > G3KEV > > IO94sh > > 829 > > 314 > > 2016-03-26 19:10 > > DK7FC > > 0.475682 > > +13 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > F6CNI > > JN19qb > > 389 > > 266 > > 2016-03-26 19:10 > > DK7FC > > 0.475782 > > -27 > > 1 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > F6CNI > > JN19qb > > 389 > > 266 > > 2016-03-26 18:30 > > DK7FC > > 0.475682 > > +15 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > F5WK > > JN18hp > > 452 > > 261 > > 2016-03-26 18:30 > > DK7FC > > 0.475782 > > -22 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > F5WK > > JN18hp > > 452 > > 261 > > 2016-03-26 18:00 > > DK7FC > > 0.475680 > > +19 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > DL6II > > JO30nx > > 205 > > 327 > > 2016-03-26 18:00 > > DK7FC > > 0.475780 > > -18 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > DL6II > > JO30nx > > 205 > > 327 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475682 > > +17 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > DL4RAJ/2 > > JN68kj > > 326 > > 109 > > 2016-03-26 18:50 > > DK7FC > > 0.475782 > > -22 > > 0 > > JN49ik > > 1 > > DL4RAJ/2 > > JN68kj > > 326 > > 109 > > > --001a113d18d69e4930052f0ba5c1 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It is unfortunate these cheap and simple low power solutio= ns have come-about at all. =C2=A0 The originators who worked out how to gen= erate a few milliwatts of Rf from very non-purpose designed hardware presum= ably never anticipated that eh great masses would end up connecting this un= suitable kit to high power amplifiers. =C2=A0 =C2=A0I hope they only ever a= nticipated their being used for very low power uses.

As = for the R-PI, that really does look like a bad way of generating narrow ban= d RF. =C2=A0 =C2=A0 I don't know the details of its internal hardare, b= ut strongly suspect that it uses a jittering =C2=A0 Fract-N route to genera= ting arbitrary frequencies. =C2=A0 Again, fine for a few milliwats of test = signal, but certainly not for amplification to hundreds of milliwatts.

If you want a decent high power source, use a DDS chip= =C2=A0or a modern Fract-N synthesizer like the LMX2541.=C2=A0 That device = has an internal VCO and an output divider that allows it to generate as low= as 35MHz - and then any external CMSO divider will allow you to go lower. = =C2=A0 And they are CLEAN - especially so when divided down to LF / HF=C2= =A0


Andy =C2=A0G4JNT

=



On 27 March 2016 at 18:14, Graham <= g8fzk@g8fzk.fs= net.co.uk> wrote:
Andy,
=C2=A0
This time its not really Stefan's=C2=A0 fault=C2=A0 :-,)
=C2=A0
This is a=C2=A0 problem , using the=C2=A0 raspberry PI ,=C2=A0 the=C2= =A0 Pi=20 processor uses=C2=A0 interrupts, which, cause the=C2=A0 execution=C2=A0=20 time=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0 timing=C2=A0 loops to=C2=A0 vary=C2=A0 slightly ,
the 'small' time=C2=A0 variations , produce side bands .
=C2=A0
This was evident=C2=A0 during=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 development of=C2=A0 a= =C2=A0=20 R-PI=C2=A0 routine=C2=A0 for=C2=A0 sending=C2=A0 Opera , as the=C2=A0 R-Pi= =20 support documentation is not=C2=A0 particularly =C2=A0comprehensive, its=C2= =A0=20 'not' possible to=C2=A0 fully address the=C2=A0 i/o=C2=A0 functions= and as such=20 there exists=C2=A0 a conflict=C2=A0 with higher order irq=C2=A0=C2=A0 reque= sts=20 .=C2=A0 Producing =C2=A0seemingly=C2=A0 random widening=C2=A0 of the=C2=A0= =20 spectrum,=C2=A0 depending=C2=A0 on the=C2=A0 irq=C2=A0 deployments.
=C2=A0
Ie the=C2=A0 pulse train suffers=C2=A0 from=C2=A0 timing =C2=A0jitter= =20
=C2=A0
The=C2=A0 alterative of the=C2=A0 U3 beacon=C2=A0 key'er , driving= =C2=A0=20 the=C2=A0 DDS=C2=A0'oscillator' is=C2=A0 a more=C2=A0 elegant=C2=A0= =20 solution,=C2=A0 but as noted by=C2=A0 Andy [rad-com]=C2=A0 some time=C2=A0 = back,=20 the=C2=A0 later=C2=A0 U3 with the=C2=A0 PPL=C2=A0 suffers from=C2=A0=20 settling=C2=A0 time issues ,=C2=A0 when=C2=A0=C2=A0commanded with , step=C2= =A0=20 frequency changes. =C2=A0these sever to produce sidebands , at the=C2=A0 st= ep=20 changes.
=C2=A0
73-G,
=C2=A0

Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 8:36 PM
Subject: LF: DK7FC WSPR bad quality problem

Hello Stefan.

=C2=A0

I am sorry, but this evening you have a very poor= quality=20 WSPR signal on MF with many splatters, I think it is perhaps due to an over= load=20 TX AF level.

=C2=A0

That is not in phase with the normal ham spirit. = So,=20 please be kind to stop now your transmission and correct this=20 problem.

=C2=A0

On the way, can you say honnestly if your power i= s not=20 over the legal limit ?

=C2=A0

Sincerly yours and =C2=A0my best 73 = de Andy.

=C2=A0

P.S.

=C2=A0

Have a look below at some reports last hour showi= ng the=20 problem :

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

2= 016-03-26 19:00=20

= DK7FC

0= .475683=20

+= 12

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= PI4THT

= JO32kf

3= 36

3= 38=20

2= 016-03-26 19:00=20

= DK7FC

0= .475783=20

-= 25

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= PI4THT

= JO32kf

3= 36

3= 38

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475783=20

-= 23

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= PE1RKT

= JO22fb

4= 18

3= 16=20

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475683=20

+= 14

1=

= JN49ik

1=

= PE1RKT

= JO22fb

4= 18

3= 16

2= 016-03-26 18:40=20

= DK7FC

0= .475683=20

+= 12

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= LA8AV

= JO59cs

1= 153

4=

2= 016-03-26 18:40=20

= DK7FC

0= .475783=20

-= 24

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= LA8AV

= JO59cs

1= 153

4=

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475783=20

-= 28

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= LA3JJ

= JO59bh

1= 102

4=

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475683=20

+= 10

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= LA3JJ

= JO59bh

1= 102

4=

2= 016-03-26 18:40=20

= DK7FC

0= .475780=20

-= 28

1=

= JN49ik

1=

= G3KEV

= IO94sh

8= 29

3= 14=20

2= 016-03-26 18:40=20

= DK7FC

0= .475679=20

+= 10

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= G3KEV

= IO94sh

8= 29

3= 14=20

2= 016-03-26 19:10=20

= DK7FC

0= .475682=20

+= 13

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= F6CNI

= JN19qb

3= 89

2= 66=20

2= 016-03-26 19:10=20

= DK7FC

0= .475782=20

-= 27

1=

= JN49ik

1=

= F6CNI

= JN19qb

3= 89

2= 66=20

2= 016-03-26 18:30=20

= DK7FC

0= .475682=20

+= 15

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= F5WK

= JN18hp

4= 52

2= 61=20

2= 016-03-26 18:30=20

= DK7FC

0= .475782=20

-= 22

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= F5WK

= JN18hp

4= 52

2= 61=20

2= 016-03-26 18:00=20

= DK7FC

0= .475680=20

+= 19

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= DL6II

= JO30nx

2= 05

3= 27=20

2= 016-03-26 18:00=20

= DK7FC

0= .475780=20

-= 18

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= DL6II

= JO30nx

2= 05

3= 27=20

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475682=20

+= 17

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= DL4RAJ/2 <= /font>

= JN68kj

3= 26

1= 09=20

2= 016-03-26 18:50=20

= DK7FC

0= .475782=20

-= 22

0=

= JN49ik

1=

= DL4RAJ/2 <= /font>

= JN68kj

3= 26

1= 09

=C2=A0


--001a113d18d69e4930052f0ba5c1--