Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u28GZNa4032295 for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:35:23 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1adKVQ-0002vn-E6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 16:29:08 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1adKVQ-0002ve-1R for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 16:29:08 +0000 Received: from rhcavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([2a02:2c40:0:c0::25:129] helo=cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1adKVM-0005rs-Jw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Mar 2016 16:29:06 +0000 X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-ID: 97F30138030.A74CA X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Received: from icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (icts-p-smtps-1e.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.33]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id 97F30138030 for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:29:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB1.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub1.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.15]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 96910403B for ; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:29:02 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::edaf:341f:90e:f70e]) by ICTS-S-HUB1.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::f5f7:d8cc:bee0:28d3%26]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Tue, 8 Mar 2016 17:29:02 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz Thread-Index: AQHRdxcetjOsUcxx+EykR3ETMdcFg59LOj+AgAGcAwCAAr1EAIAAFmMF////xwCAABS+gw== Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2016 16:29:02 +0000 Message-ID: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444DEDA6@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> References: <56DB3FC7.22052.7963D3@roelof.ndb.demon.nl> <56DEE5AA.32359.3F8891@roelof.ndb.demon.nl> <6D61ED7030E54FB69566773E90156608@gnat>, In-Reply-To: Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.11.12] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 2a02:2c40:0:c0::25:129 (rhcavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be) used invalid HELO/EHLO cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be - verification failed X-Scan-Signature: df2e2c1e83972f6e42eeb17d78e70347 Subject: RE: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444DEDA6ICTSSMBX1lunaku_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7266 --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444DEDA6ICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Just a thought: what if I could set up a local WSPR station (let's say at 10 km from my QTH= ) that transmit 100% of the time with very low power (so it is centrainly n= ot overloading my RX). I would expect that propagation of a 10 km path is 100% groundwave, so the = (absolute) signal level should be constant and the WSPR SNR values from tha= t station could be used as a reference for the local QRM/QRN level. I think that just a few mW in a short wire would be enough to produce a rea= dable WSPR signal at 10 km. 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@gmail.com] Verzonden: dinsdag 8 maart 2016 17:05 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz What is needed, is a software package that runs in parallel, monitoring and= recoding the noise level. It would have to work in a manner that was unaf= fected by the presence of signals, and also on a receiver without AGC. Basic software techniques could sort out the first issue (see my piece in t= he the latest RadCom -plus) and sort noise from narrowband signals. Any A= GC action could still upset things Andy G4JNT On 8 March 2016 at 14:59, Alan Melia > wrote: Hi Roelof, thank you for those comments, that was my feeling but there is s= o much recorded informationI thought it was worth a look and sticking my ne= ck out to see if anyone would say I was all wrong :-)) Yes for preference I would use a continuous carrier/signal but that is not = always possible. Thanks and Best Wishes Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roelof Bakker" > To: >; > Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 2:46 PM Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz Hello all, Attached last night's reception of VO1NA. Between 01:15 and 01:25 UTC, marginal aural copy was possible in CW mode and good aural copy in Linrad's coherent mode. As can be seen, the band noise is much lower than the previous night. Alan, regarding the use of WSPR for propagation study, due to the rapid fading on 475 kHz, a continuous signal is called for and most WSPR stations don't provide this. The S/N indication of WSPR is nice, but useless for propagation study as the background noise shows a lot of variation over the course of the night and from night to night as can be seen in my overnight Linrad fast playback screen shots. Best regards, Roelof =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D From: Roelof Bakker, PAoRDT Location: Middelburg, Zealand SW Netherlands, 51 30 02 N, 03 36 02 E Locator: JO11tm Receiver hardware: Afedri SDR Receiver software: Linrad Aerial: pa0rdt-mini-whip, 5 metre up in a hawthorn tree. =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D ---------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: VO1NA20160308.gif Date: 8 Mar 2016, 15:06 Size: 138310 bytes. Type: GIF-image --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444DEDA6ICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Just a thought:

 

what if I could set up a local WSPR station (let's say at 10 km from my = QTH) that transmit 100% of the time with very low power (so it is centrainl= y not overloading my RX).

I would expect that propagation of a 10 km path is 100% groundwave, so t= he (absolute) signal level should be constant and the WSPR SNR values from = that station could be used as a reference for the local QRM/QRN level.

I think that just a few mW in a short wire would be enough to produce a = readable WSPR signal at 10 km.

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Andy Talbot [andy.g4jnt@gmail.com= ]
Verzonden: dinsdag 8 maart 2016 17:05
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz

What is needed, is a software package that runs in paralle= l, monitoring and recoding the noise level.  It would have to work in = a manner that was unaffected by the presence of signals, and also on a rece= iver without AGC.

Basic software techniques could sort out the first issue (see my piece= in the the latest RadCom -plus) and sort noise from narrowband signals.&nb= sp; Any  AGC action could still upset things

Andy  G4JNT


On 8 March 2016 at 14:59, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:
Hi Roelof, thank you for those comments, that was my feeling but there is s= o much recorded informationI thought it was worth a look and sticking my ne= ck out to see if anyone would say I was all wrong :-))

Yes for preference I would use a continuous carrier/signal but that is not = always possible.

Thanks and Best Wishes
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message ----- From: "Roelof Bakker" <roelof@ndb.demon.nl><= br> To: <jcraig@mun.ca>; <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2016 2:46 PM
Subject: Re: LF: VO1NA CW 477.7 kHz


Hello all,

Attached last night's reception of VO1NA.
Between 01:15 and 01:25 UTC, marginal aural copy was possible in CW
mode and good aural copy in Linrad's coherent mode.
As can be seen, the band noise is much lower than the previous
night.

Alan, regarding the use of WSPR for propagation study, due to the
rapid fading on 475 kHz, a continuous signal is called for and most
WSPR stations don't provide this.

The S/N indication of WSPR is nice, but useless for propagation
study as the background noise shows a lot of variation over the
course of the night and from night to night as can be seen in my
overnight Linrad fast playback screen shots.

Best regards,
Roelof
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
From: Roelof Bakker, PAoRDT
Location: Middelburg, Zealand SW Netherlands, 51 30 02 N, 03 36 02 E
Locator: JO11tm
Receiver hardware: Afedri SDR
Receiver software: Linrad
Aerial: pa0rdt-mini-whip, 5 metre up in a hawthorn tree.
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D






---------------------------------------------------------------------------= -----


The following section of this message contains a file attachment
prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format.
If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any other MIME-compliant system,
you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer.
If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance.

  ---- File information -----------
    File:  VO1NA20160308.gif
    Date:  8 Mar 2016, 15:06
    Size:  138310 bytes.
    Type:  GIF-image




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