Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=4 Fuz1=4 Fuz2=4 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,SPF_PASS autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id u2JMY7kR029362 for ; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 23:34:07 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ahPNL-0002gu-G3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:29:39 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ahPNK-0002gl-TU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:29:38 +0000 Received: from nm7-vm1.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com ([212.82.96.126]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ahPNI-0002lj-Ey for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:29:37 +0000 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=yahoo.co.uk Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=yahoo.co.uk; s=s2048; t=1458426575; bh=UK2p1bElOarBgZr4F3h3lu2FmzxGwV9jixf42WaTnSI=; h=Date:From:Reply-To:To:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From:Subject; b=huAgID750c526+PVKJk0s+pLxzerrAk1bH6LfnEoAlkvaYau9gKGbW/dJw68iLerSuIpioN+bwOMAcqxBu6u9txzsYaNm4RxVwxaw7J5JnOATXyaDaq0aGW1YUtIoAuz65yU7f7LPwMBQQpnjHRWNt0uM3RYfHKhIj8+Q8Oq9jL1fy61Y+YDhgDqqEwxKFXBvMQ8N+tQWj5OEEL3TuE9/nWE32FRrMai/sAN6BTfgMdZ2UqwAwD3CVqtUTHmEx/m4Fz01TWEJVky7GqfsakxynmH/qUkW0ue+Zw03pHJLcDOqJR8teoU3ehQVlmm7JnO3IcmHJyJtUO/hHrovINGvA== Received: from [212.82.98.125] by nm7.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2016 22:29:35 -0000 Received: from [212.82.98.113] by tm18.bullet.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2016 22:29:35 -0000 Received: from [127.0.0.1] by omp1050.mail.ir2.yahoo.com with NNFMP; 19 Mar 2016 22:29:35 -0000 X-Yahoo-Newman-Property: ymail-3 X-Yahoo-Newman-Id: 392331.44254.bm@omp1050.mail.ir2.yahoo.com X-YMail-OSG: ky.GWEAVM1mwSeKOSGVvTspDqCqop85XZYz6jY40J2hAZMf82F1vqmL6_MTEeyG ayfxEWB._FGhmPQdgBKkaanITMx_XGvlD5jDH4CF5.eMMEG1ssJpD5mHh39369D6h6v1dIZu4YWe YNaS2Wa4O_5f_RLl4Cw73TnkWdptUk4E5.Ue4vqmHWqiaTCpVWGLowzydHy1aynNn6wjoWwoTFBU 193gkiaubkzwSMzhCJNqq6dRVtwwZKgcCwQTpXJSEmlA5VQYDl_SoSYphd2fgR77JkbrzOzjlGiM qMfkqVQNt4q7rj_bf.HpT_t7BSi_y8SI1XhrxvfFr.ZHG9wKdR2DcMo7NFfOKemzGOfPhdJS5REw o3wC3zIL70lxWGjh2soIhwRpdFD1_NV5W0sxGTw_eBq_lV2ig9wk0kHfxOp.HXastY9XAIAizWU0 3C8vxSSIMyv1hltT8Pgy3s.1h.FOk31CYPa9YqMd2DyMl8BLKN4Ah8b6QdtGrP8l1loIjNgyAYrh SHVpvk3OcYhTtVRjlg62wHd1XjC9LzKY- Received: by 212.82.98.122; Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:29:34 +0000 Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2016 22:28:31 +0000 (UTC) From: David Hine To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Message-ID: <1328675214.2544674.1458426511305.JavaMail.yahoo@mail.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <56EDAE29.8040009@abelian.org> References: <56EDAE29.8040009@abelian.org> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 860e51ceecdf98b32e8eba101d9d472d Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut from Todmorden Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_Part_2544673_598784973.1458426511298" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.11 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 7420 ------=_Part_2544673_598784973.1458426511298 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi, It sounds fascinating -the sort of thing I like to do!!! Another motto = -transmit and be damned!!!!.=C2=A0BUT if=C2=A0you are on a mains PME system= (as most domestic supplies have been since the 1970's), remember the mains= 'earth' (and the bonded=C2=A0piping in your house) is actually a direct co= nnection to mains neutral!! This can become extremely dangerous (to you) in= the event of any neutral faults or disconnections in the street cables or = corroded neutral=C2=A0junctions, as this 'neutral' can become live up to 44= 0v AC, putting you and your equipment in danger as the 'fault' current pass= es to the outdoor earth!! So take care=C2=A0as the mains 'earth' can=C2=A0t= hen become live=C2=A0 up to 440v as faults can occur without any=C2=A0warni= ng. With PME it is much wiser to isolate from anything=C2=A0outdoors=C2=A0a= nd never use the mains 'earth' and / or house plumbing in conjunction with = outdoor earths. It is your choice, so please take care and let me know your= transmitting results. Never tamper with or try to 'defeat' a working house= =C2=A0safety trip!!! -that could cost you very=C2=A0dearly!!!!!!!=C2=A0With= very kind regards, Dave.=C2=A0 From: Paul Nicholson To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, 19 March 2016, 19:53 Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut from Todmorden =20 Peter wrote: > End of World is Nigh ... A pal at Uni (quite a party animal) often used to say - if anything's worth doing, it's worth doing to extremes.=C2=A0 I've often taken that as sound advice. Stefan wrote: > It's a big fun, you know. Remember my earth antenna in > the forst :-) Indeed yes, and I think I received a little signal from it. Today I ran out 500m of wire and terminated the remote end in a convenient bog.=C2=A0 Not the km I was thinking of but it'll do for a start. The resistance of the ground loop through the wire and back to the domestic ground is 380 ohms.=C2=A0 It is virtually all resistance, I can see a slight phase shift of the test current but not enough to measure the reactance accurately. That's a pity.=C2=A0 If I knew the inductance I could estimate the effective area of the one turn ground loop.=C2=A0 Anyway the loop impedance is flat up to 2MHz where there is a very slight peak. I got the amplifier fired up.=C2=A0 It's quite a beast, rated 5kW into 4 ohm.=C2=A0 Actually I've got two of these but one will do for now.=C2=A0 I reckon about a 20 turn primary around that monster toroid will match a kW or two via the 400t secondary into the earth loop. I don't know if I'll get it rigged up tonight but maybe tomorrow evening I might be able to do a 'large signal impedance measurement'. I guess this isn't going to radiate very well but it's fun to try.=C2=A0 If any of the neighbours ask why the ground is steaming I'll just tell them about the heavy duty mole repeller I'm working on. -- Paul Nicholson -- ------=_Part_2544673_598784973.1458426511298 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi, It sounds fascinating -the sort of thing I like to do!!! Another motto= -transmit and be damned!!!!:) devil" class=3D"yiv542350992= 1yahoo-ignore-inline-image" id=3D"yiv5423509921yui_3_16_0_ym18_1_1458423852= 297_3496" alt=3D"*>:) devil" src=3D"https://s.yimg.com/ok/u/assets/img/emot= icons/emo15.gif" data-id=3D"eb225a5b-c07b-fe88-8bed-f44eb777f1a5">.=  BUT if you are on a mains PME system (as most domestic = supplies have been since the 1970's), remember the mains 'earth' (and the b= onded piping in your house) is actually a direct connection to mains n= eutral!! This can become extremely dangerous<= /strong> (to you) in the event of any neutral faults or disconnections in t= he street cables or corroded neutral junctions, as this 'neutral' can = become live up to 440v AC, putting y= ou and your equipment in danger as the 'fault' current passes to the outdoo= r earth!! So take care as the mains 'earth' can then become live&= nbsp; up to 440v as faults can occur without any warning. With PME it = is much wiser to isolate from anything outdoors and never use the mains 'earth' and / or house plumbi= ng in conjunction with outdoor earths. It is your choice, so please take ca= re and let me know your transmitting results. Never tamper with or try to '= defeat' a working house safety trip!!! -that could cost you very = dearly!!!!!!! With very kind regards, Dave. 


<= /div>
=
=
From:= Paul Nicholson <vlf0403@abelian.org>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Sent: Satur= day, 19 March 2016, 19:53
Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut from Todmorden


P= eter wrote:

> End of World is Nigh= ...

A pal at Uni (quite a party animal) often used to say - if
anything's worth doing, it's worth doing to extremes.  I've<= br clear=3D"none">often taken that as sound advice.

Stefan wrote:

> It's= a big fun, you know. Remember my earth antenna in
> = the forst :-)

Indeed yes, and I think = I received a little signal from it.

To= day I ran out 500m of wire and terminated the remote
end = in a convenient bog.  Not the km I was thinking of
= but it'll do for a start.

The resistan= ce of the ground loop through the wire and
back to the do= mestic ground is 380 ohms.  It is virtually
all resi= stance, I can see a slight phase shift of the test
curren= t but not enough to measure the reactance accurately.
Tha= t's a pity.  If I knew the inductance I could estimate
the effective area of the one turn ground loop.  Anyway the
loop impedance is flat up to 2MHz where there is a very
slight peak.

I got the ampli= fier fired up.  It's quite a beast, rated 5kW
into 4= ohm.  Actually I've got two of these but one will do
for now.  I reckon about a 20 turn primary around that monster
toroid will match a kW or two via the 400t secondary into the=
earth loop.

I don't= know if I'll get it rigged up tonight but maybe
tomorrow= evening I might be able to do a 'large signal
impedance = measurement'.

I guess this isn't going= to radiate very well but it's
fun to try.  If any = of the neighbours ask why the ground
is steaming I'll jus= t tell them about the heavy duty
mole repeller I'm workin= g on.

--
Paul Nichol= son
--



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