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From: John Rabson <john.rabson07@gmail.com>
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Date: Wed, 13 Jan 2016 10:32:04 +0100
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References: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444AD460@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> <8D319CF354F3AA6-530-5191A9@webmail-vd006.sysops.aol.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A444AD4C0@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> <AE568FD755EB494E88B8B72D66944E3B@pcn5>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
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Subject: Re: LF: ERP - EIRP - PAR... Some comments.
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Andy,

I wonder if you have slightly misinterpreted the outcome of WRC-12. I think the passage that Rik quoted shows that we can still have the full 5 W if we are more than 379 km north of the French Mediterranean coast (800-621). Do you agree?

73 John F5VLF

> On 10 Jan 2016, at 17:15, F6CNI - Andy - JN19QB <f6cni@orange.fr> wrote:
> 
> Hi all.
>  
> I agree 100% with RIK.
>  
> Yes, and in France the EIRP limit is 1 Watt only, because the minimum distance from the south coast in France to Algeria is below 800 km (621 km exactly).
>  
> This 1 Watt EIRP means about 0.6 Watt ERP (In France the ERP is call PAR “Puissance Apparente Rayonnée”), due to the 2.14 dB isotropic gain of a monopole over a perfect ground. Even if the ground is not perfect (outside of the main lobe formation, that is the begining of the Fraunhofer zone), a 2 db value is a reasonable choice.
>  
> If you have a very good antenna ( i.e. 30 meters vertical part, a large top hat capacitance, and a good ground system, your antenna has around 10% effeciency), you need only 6 Watts output TX to have 1 W EIRP. But using a short vertical without top hat and not good ground (perhaps 0.1% efficiency) you need a 600 Watts TX to reach the legal limit. HI !
>  
> On the way : yes, on MF and LF bands it is a good choice to show your EIRP power.
>  
> 73 de Andy F6CNI.
>  
>  
> From: Rik Strobbe
> Sent: Sunday, January 10, 2016 4:36 PM
> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Subject: RE: LF: RE: JT9 actvity...
>  
> Hi Markus,
>  
> not everywhere!
>  
> The outcome of WRC-12 was:
> "The maximum equivalent isotropically radiated power (e.i.r.p.) of stations in the amateur service using frequencies in the band 472-479 kHz shall not exceed 1 W. Administrations may increase this limit of e.i.r.p. to 5 W in portions of their territory which are at a distance of over 800 km from the borders of Algeria, Saudi Arabia, Azerbaijan, Bahrain, Belarus, China, Comoros, Djibouti, Egypt, United Arab Emirates, the Russian Federation, Iran (Islamic Republic of), Iraq, Jordan, Kazakhstan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Morocco, Mauritania, Oman, Uzbekistan, Qatar, Syrian Arab Republic, Kyrgyzstan, Somalia, Sudan, Tunisia, Ukraine and Yemen. In this frequency band, stations in the amateur service shall not cause harmful interference to, or claim protection from, stations of the aeronautical radionavigation service."
>  
> In Belgium the power limit is 5W EIRP (3 W ERP), I believe this is also the case in the Netherland, UK and Ireland.
>  
> But you are right about the saturation. With the right antenna (height) it is easy to produce many 10's W ERP with a few 100W TX power.
>  
> 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T
>  
> Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens Markus Vester [markusvester@aol.com]
> Verzonden: zondag 10 januari 2016 16:03
> Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
> Onderwerp: Re: LF: RE: JT9 actvity...
> 
>  
> Note however that the power scale saturates at 1 W ERP, which is (by definition) the largest power an amateur can possibly radiate on LF and MF ;-)
>  
> Best 73,
> Markus (DF6NM)
> 
>  
> -----Ursprüngliche Mitteilung----- 
> Von: Rik Strobbe <rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>
> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Verschickt: So, 10 Jan 2016 3:42 pm
> Betreff: LF: RE: JT9 actvity... 
> Hello Szigy, 
> 
> regarding the declared power level in WSPR: Most stations declare their ERP, not  
> 
> PA output. 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> ________________________________________ 
> 
> 
> Van: 
> owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]  
> 
> namens Szigy [
> yo2is@wa7v.ampr.org] 
> 
> Verzonden: zaterdag 9 januari 2016 20:22 
> 
> 
> Aan: 
> rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org 
> 
> Onderwerp: LF: JT9 actvity... 
> 
> 
>  
> 
> 
> From: YO2IS 
> 
>  Hello from KN05ps, 
> 
> 
> was pleased to take part in the 8 ian JT9 activity. 
> 
> 
>  Lot of signals received, propagation was similar to 2m Es ! 
> 
> 
> very short openings from unexpected QTF's. 
> 
> 
>  Nice QSO with DG3LV in JO53, IZ7SLZ responded to my CQ he was 
> 
> 
> a solid -23 then nil. Received again OR7T -27, we had a nice 
> 
> 
> QSO a day before, also wkd DC1RJJ who responded to my CQ !!. 
> 
> 
>  CWNR, several times IW4DXW up to -24 and DF7FC -20 he often is 
> 
> 
> reporting my WSPR-2 nil in JT9... 
> 
> 
>  My TVRT / IRF540 had only 20 W out into the 41m sloping wire. 
> 
> 
> it seems that the IC-7000 is not as bad for reception on LF / MF. 
> 
> 
>  Surprised also by the  WSPR-2 results, litle confused with the 
> 
> 
> received signal levels versus de declared power dBm! are real ?... 
> 
> 
>  Enjoy the good winter conditions. 
> 
> 
>    73 & DX, Szigy.ÿþ?ÿþ? 
> 

john.rabson07@gmail.com

Researching history of RABSON, BLACKSHAW, GAUNTLETT, VERLANDER and ROBSONNE