Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tBDE9LFT016445 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 15:09:22 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1a87IJ-0005ZC-VS for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:06:35 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1a87IJ-0005Z3-KU for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:06:35 +0000 Received: from mail-wm0-f50.google.com ([74.125.82.50]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256:128) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1a87HG-0007Z4-7H for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:06:34 +0000 Received: by mail-wm0-f50.google.com with SMTP id p66so12606473wmp.0 for ; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:05:18 -0800 (PST) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=GFN++6vzg7EAJWjSGp0Wc6mkxg8St4wCtxY/oAvmQCw=; b=ehVROFD62jDFdB+B8Y+/QrpZwqqB0cvrvVfqVksOWAvzZf7pJQfX47b/j+nz8ojToL 1bDkxuLe2aAA7Ty2CGyz8O6Cgg4unFUd/uayoyEB8yiJZDR5jj5Ai9duZ1zZd0tM5ArP FpMXQN7Gu97I2GDOXI4QYcMpT/PhmrMlXOCPpOpJpOe/mx9THSCur9ksseDB6Kj/3akx hAj/gk3FAdoeTxUbCpO+PNgTbz35upOXe1wFiL/Ykv6sbITMjt4rm4Yh6aFqEyASE8GA pI75T3737QhuRXB9Hau/GyE0yzXDFQYWMdFJD5/unXxDPq7+O7Qjs5dI0y9gmgEAV6GB TzZA== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.28.9.138 with SMTP id 132mr18585897wmj.19.1450015518029; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:05:18 -0800 (PST) Received: by 10.28.130.139 with HTTP; Sun, 13 Dec 2015 06:05:17 -0800 (PST) In-Reply-To: <566D73CD.1070805@freenet.de> References: <56686FA0.4050707@gmail.com> <56695B15.6010203@abelian.org> <56696950.1040300@abelian.org> <5669B7CE.1090601@freenet.de> <5669E1E3.6070008@abelian.org> <566D6597.4070901@freenet.de> <566D73CD.1070805@freenet.de> Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2015 14:05:17 +0000 Message-ID: From: Andy Talbot To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Scan-Signature: 11963a33d604c33786d8f1de94ce267f Subject: Re: LF: LF EbNaut test from JN80 on 137370 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11443d9edefd8d0526c80b1a X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5794 --001a11443d9edefd8d0526c80b1a Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Looked at like that it makes good sense. On a vector scope plot, with I along the positive X axis and Y vertically upwards, a positive frequency rotates anti-clockwise, from I to Q, ie from right hand side x axis to vertical up. So Q comes after I and is "lagging" On a different matter, the zero frequency spike (1kHz leakage) is now sorted. I added an RF gain stage with about 20dB gain, and another 500kHz low pass filter on its input. The amp is a design borrowed from audio, a two transistor design with simple resistive feedback to set the gain. The LPF should remove the damaging 13V narrow spikes and reduce the total energy in the resulting square wave should I leave it connected to the Procomm active antenna whilst transmitting. As the amp runs from 12V, is biased mid way and has various bias resistors in series with the transistor terminals, so high levels of input should not damage it. And even if devices do pop, they are only BC846 (NPN) and BC859 (PNP) taking no more than a couple of minutes to replace. Andy G4JNT On 13 December 2015 at 13:34, Wolfgang B=C3=BCscher wro= te: > > > Am 13.12.2015 um 13:59 schrieb Andy Talbot: > >> The terms "leading" and "lagging" are the most confusing terms I've ever >> come across in AC. A waveform on a scope, to the right of another one >> looks as if its leading it. But it is later in time - so its lagging. >> >> See my point ? >> >> Yes... bare with me, old habits die hard .. but the 'vor- oder > nacheilende Phase' (as we called it in german at school) came back to min= d. > Indeed what I meant was when treating "I" as the reference, the waveform > at "Q" appeared to (!) be "90=C2=B0 late", when viewed on a (kind-of) > oscilloscope. Of course the signal at "I" doesn't appear at "Q" later - i= t > only looks like that. > > > Cheers, > Wolf . > > > --001a11443d9edefd8d0526c80b1a Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Looked at like that it makes good sense.=C2=A0=C2=A0 = On a vector scope plot, with I along the positive X axis and Y vertically u= pwards, a positive frequency rotates anti-clockwise, from I to Q, ie from r= ight hand side x axis to vertical up.=C2=A0=C2=A0 So Q comes after I and is= "lagging"

On a different matter, the ze= ro frequency spike (1kHz leakage) is now sorted.=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 I added = an RF gain stage with about 20dB gain, and another 500kHz low pass filter o= n its input.=C2=A0The amp is a design borrowed from audio, a two transistor= design with simple resistive feedback to set the gain.=C2=A0=C2=A0
<= div>The LPF should remove the=C2=A0damaging 13V narrow =C2=A0spikes and red= uce the total energy in the resulting square wave =C2=A0should I leave it c= onnected to the Procomm active antenna whilst transmitting.=C2=A0 As the am= p runs from 12V, is biased mid way and has=C2=A0various bias resistors in s= eries with=C2=A0the transistor terminals, so high levels of input should no= t damage it.=C2=A0 And even if devices do pop, they are only BC846 (NPN) an= d BC859 (PNP)=C2=A0taking no more than=C2=A0a couple of minutes to replace.=

Andy=C2=A0 G4JNT


On 13 December 2015 at = 13:34, Wolfgang B=C3=BCscher <dl4yhf@freenet.de> wrote:
<= blockquote class=3D"gmail_quote" style=3D"margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px= #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">

Am 13.12.2015 um 13:59 schrieb Andy Talbot:
The terms "leading" and "lagging" are the most confusin= g terms I've ever come across in AC.=C2=A0 A waveform on a scope, to th= e right of another one looks as if its leading it.=C2=A0 =C2=A0But it is la= ter in time - so its lagging.

See my point ?

Yes... bare with me, old habits die hard .. but the 'vor- oder nacheile= nde Phase' (as we called it in german at school) came back to mind.
Indeed what I meant was when treating "I" as the reference, the w= aveform at "Q" appeared to (!) be "90=C2=B0 late", when= viewed on a (kind-of) oscilloscope. Of course the signal at "I" = doesn't appear at "Q" later - it only looks like that.


Cheers,
=C2=A0 Wolf .



--001a11443d9edefd8d0526c80b1a--