Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tARJggEB027771 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 20:42:42 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1a2Org-00059k-2O for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:39:28 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1a2Orf-00059b-Li for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:39:27 +0000 Received: from omr-a005e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.50]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1a2Oqd-0005PG-1W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 19:39:26 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.208]) by omr-a005e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 92E4A38000AB for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:38:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-afa02b.mail.aol.com (core-afa02.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.2]) by mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 4A94B38000081 for ; Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:38:05 -0500 (EST) References: <56589C1C.2030406@freenet.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <56589C1C.2030406@freenet.de> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com (64.12.253.52) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:38:05 -0500 Message-Id: <8D2F7624506F06A-11FC-1535C0@webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] Date: Fri, 27 Nov 2015 14:38:05 -0500 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1448653085; bh=BHlzJ+CHtRSxpgXShCuJcT1U0zpDwhvDbVXio4u75tE=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=O63CjLMQHWBAP78ob4EoMc0MBf9zTckUOWBAUnWgnC9KwOSKTCkjtFVel5x3rDiO4 dM9wLDFtYLUfWeLogaRXW0k09Kl9rOnMVnpWRff0WAlM09vgomFdlPxvgqQL8yUAE7 drahwkjRhfHBN6AKruvANwNk1IxrLP5dQkLF8Vwk= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7ed05658b11d37ab X-Scan-Signature: 7c995d39cde70605aa76dd18810a4256 Subject: Re: LF: More EbNaut 137.777 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D2F7624519FBC2_11FC_31032F_webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5368 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D2F7624519FBC2_11FC_31032F_webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" =20Hi=20Wolf,=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0Aat=20our=20distance,=20DCF39=C2=A0is=20on=20the=20= order=20of=203=20mV/m.=20Assuming=20a=20best-case=20daytime=20band=20noise=20of=20= ~0.05=20uV/m/sqrtHz,=C2=A0a=20sensitive=20antenna=C2=A0could=20thus=C2=A0produce= =20around=2095=20dB=20SNR=20in=201=20Hz=C2=A0bandwidth.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0ABut=20y= ou=20asked=20for=20a=20weaker=20one...=20There's=20an=20unid=20carrier=20on=2013= 7689.45=20Hz=20which=20is=20yellowish=20here=20and=20fading,=C2=A0so=20maybe=20f= rom=C2=A0Italy=20or=C2=A0north=20Mediterranean=20area.=20It=20has=20always=20bee= n=20visible=C2=A0on=20different=C2=A0QRSS-segment=20grabbers,=C2=A0=20but=C2=A0f= or=20some=20reason=20became=20significantly=C2=A0stronger=20since=20Nov=206th=20= (currently=20~2=20uV/m=20here).=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AThen=20of=20course=20there=20ar= e=20Loran=20sideband=20lines.=20Lessay=20and=20Sylt=20are=20on=20multiples=20of=20= 50000/6731=20and=2050000/7499=20but=20not=20strong=20(some=20tens=20of=C2=A0uW=C2= =A0at=20137=20kHz).=20Here=20they=20are=20only=20sometimes=20visible=20in=20QRSS= -60=20bins,=20but=20very=20reliable=20frequency=20markers=20in=20a=20sub-milliHz= =20spectrum.=20Slonim=20is=20stronger=20at=20night=20and=C2=A0is=20on=C2=A0a=C2=A0= convenient=20raster=20of=2050000/8000=20=3D=206.25=20Hz=20multiples.=C2=A0=0D=0A= =0D=0AJoe's=C2=A0PSK-modulated=20signal=C2=A0is=20spread=20over=200.5=20Hz,=20an= d=20was=20thus=C2=A0hardly=20or=20not=20at=20all=20visible=20in=20any=20of=20my=20= spectrograms.=C2=A0On=20the=20other=20hand,=C2=A0Domenico's=20transmissions=C2=A0= were=C2=A0very=20conspicuous=C2=A0because=C2=A0he=C2=A0embedded=20his=20EbNaut=20= sequences=20into=20relatively=20long=20segments=20of=20pure=20carrier.=0D=0A=C2=A0= =0D=0AHigh=20noise=20from=20an=20indoor=20loop=20might=20be=20caused=20by=20pick= up=20from=20ADSL=20lines.=20The=C2=A0uplink=20spectrum=C2=A0sent=20by=20nearby=20= modems=20starts=20above=20138=20kHz=20but=20there's=20usually=20spectral=20leaka= ge=20into=20hour=20band.=C2=A0Though=20it=20is=20supposed=20to=20be=20a=20pure=20= differential=20signal,=20the=20telephone=20lines=20are=20hardly=20perfectly=20sy= mmetric,=20and=C2=A0the=20common-mode=20component=C2=A0radiates=20significant=20= magnetic=20fields.=C2=A0Unlike=20the=20characteristic=20SMPS=C2=A0interference,=C2= =A0ADSL=20is=C2=A0not=20so=20easy=20to=20identify=20because=20it=20usually=20sou= nds=20like=20plain=20white=20noise.=20You=20can=20use=20a=20portable=20AM-radio=20= with=20a=20ferrite-loopstick,=20tune=20it=20to=20any=20clear=20channel=20above=20= 140=20kHz,=20and=20try=20to=20sniff=20around=20for=20telephone=20cables=20in=20t= he=20house=C2=A0or=20outdoors=20underground.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AAll=20the=20best,=0D= =0AMarkus=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A=C2=A0=C2=A0=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche= =20Mitteilung-----=20=0D=0AVon:=20Wolfgang=20B=C3=BCscher=20<dl4yhf@freenet.d= e>=0D=0AAn:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=0D=0AVersc= hickt:=20Fr,=2027=20Nov=202015=207:14=20pm=0D=0ABetreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20More=20Eb= Naut=20137.777=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20Greetings=20all,=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20Do=20we=20hav= e=20a=20relatively=20stable,=20but=20not=20too=20strong=20'carrier=20like'=20=20= =20=20=20signal=20in=20the=20vincinity=20of=20137=20kHz,=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20to=20= get=20a=20rough=20estimate=20of=20the=20local=20QRM=20level=20(by=20comparing=20= that=20=20=20=20=20signal's=20SNR=20with=20the=20same=20receiver=20bandwidth,=20= say=201=20Hz)=20?=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20I=20get=20the=20impression=20that=20mine,=20= with=20a=20loop=20antenna=20(low-impedance,=20=20=20=20=20broadband)=20dangling=20= under=20the=20roof,=20is=20far=20too=20high.=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20I=20didn't=20ma= nage=20a=20single=20decode=20yet,=20which=20I=20first=20blamed=20on=20a=20bug=20= =20=20=20=20in=20SL's=20timestamps=20(written=20into=20the=20decimated=20wave=20= file),=20but=20since=20=20=20=20=20there=20was=20also=20not=20a=20trace=20of=20J= oe's=20signal=20in=20a=20high-res=20=20=20=20=20spectrogram,=20I=20have=20my=20d= oubts..=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=2073,=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=C2=A0=20= Wolf=20DL4YHF=20.=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20= =0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20Am=2027.11.2015=20um=2010:49=20schrieb=20Markus=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20Vester:=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D= =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20A=20few=20more=20weaker=20decodes=20occurred=20here=20= around=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20midnight,=C2=A0ending=20before=201=20UT.=20The=20= spectrogram=20caught=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20a=C2=A0short=C2=A0carrier=C2=A0ar= ound=200:20=20UT=20(spectrum=20showing=20on=20https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/= u/26404526/EbNaut_spectrogram.png=C2=A0).=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=C2=A0=C2=A0=202015=20Nov=2026/27=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20start=C2=A0=20Eb/N0=C2=A0=20time=20offset=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=C2=A0UT=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20dB=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=20seconds=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=202030= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20nil=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202100=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=201.3=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=201.2=C2=A0=C2=A0=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=202130=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=203.9=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=201.5=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202200=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=205.4=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=201.9=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202230=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=207.4=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=202.3=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202300=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=208.4=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=202.5=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202330=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=201.9=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=203.0=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=200000=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=202.2=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=203.4=0D=0A=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=200030=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=201.0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20= 3.5=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=200100=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20nil=0D=0A=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=200130=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=20nil=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Best=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=2073,=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Markus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D= =0A=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D2F7624519FBC2_11FC_31032F_webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A
=20Hi=20= Wolf,
=0D=0A=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=0D=0A
at=20our=20distance,=20= DCF39 is=20on=20the=20order=20of=203=20mV/m.=20Assuming=20a=20best-case=20d= aytime=20band=20noise=20of=20~0.05=20uV/m/sqrtHz, a=20sensitive=20antenna&n= bsp;could=20thus produce=20around=2095=20dB=20SNR=20in=201=20Hz bandwi= dth.
=0D=0A=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=0D=0A
But=20you=20asked=20for=20= a=20weaker=20one...=20There's=20an=20unid=20carrier=20on=20137689.45=20Hz=20whic= h=20is=20yellowish=20here=20and=20fading, so=20maybe=20from Italy=20or=  north=20Mediterranean=20area.=20It=20has=20always=20been=20visible on= =20different QRSS-segment=20grabbers, =20but for=20some=20reason=20= became=20significantly stronger=20since=20Nov=206th=20(currently=20~2=20uV/= m=20here).
=0D=0A=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=0D=0A
Then=20of=20course= =20there=20are=20Loran=20sideband=20lines.=20Lessay=20and=20Sylt=20are=20on=20mu= ltiples=20of=2050000/6731=20and=2050000/7499=20but=20not=20strong=20(some=20tens= =20of uW at=20137=20kHz).=20Here=20they=20are=20only=20sometimes=20vis= ible=20in=20QRSS-60=20bins,=20but=20very=20reliable=20frequency=20markers=20in=20= a=20sub-milliHz=20spectrum.=20Slonim=20is=20stronger=20at=20night=20and is=20= on a convenient=20raster=20of=2050000/8000=20=3D=206.25=20Hz=20multipl= es. 
=0D=0A
=0D=0A=0D=0A
Joe's PSK-modulated=20signal = ;is=20spread=20over=200.5=20Hz,=20and=20was=20thus hardly=20or=20not=20at=20= all=20visible=20in=20any=20of=20my=20spectrograms. On=20the=20other=20hand,=  Domenico's=20transmissions were very=20conspicuous because&= nbsp;he embedded=20his=20EbNaut=20sequences=20into=20relatively=20long=20se= gments=20of=20pure=20carrier.
=0D=0A=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=0D=0AHigh=20noise=20from=20an=20indoor=20loop=20might=20be=20caused=20by=20pickup=20= from=20ADSL=20lines.=20The uplink=20spectrum sent=20by=20nearby=20mode= ms=20starts=20above=20138=20kHz=20but=20there's=20usually=20spectral=20leakage=20= into=20hour=20band. Though=20it=20is=20supposed=20to=20be=20a=20pure=20diff= erential=20signal,=20the=20telephone=20lines=20are=20hardly=20perfectly=20symmet= ric,=20and the=20common-mode=20component radiates=20significant=20magn= etic=20fields. Unlike=20the=20characteristic=20SMPS interference, = ;ADSL=20is not=20so=20easy=20to=20identify=20because=20it=20usually=20sound= s=20like=20plain=20white=20noise.=20You=20can=20use=20a=20portable=20AM-radio=20= with=20a=20ferrite-loopstick,=20tune=20it=20to=20any=20clear=20channel=20above=20= 140=20kHz,=20and=20try=20to=20sniff=20around=20for=20telephone=20cables=20in=20t= he=20house or=20outdoors=20underground.=0D=0A=0D=0A
 
=0D= =0A=0D=0A
All=20the=20best,
=0D=0A=0D=0A
Markus
=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A
  
=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A=0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20
=0D=0AVon:=20Wolfgang=20= B=C3=BCscher=20<dl4yhf@freenet.de>
=0D=0AAn:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org>
=0D=0AVerschickt:=20Fr,=2027=20Nov=202015=207:14= =20pm
=0D=0ABetreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20More=20EbNaut=20137.777
=0D=0A
=0D=0A= =20=0D=0A=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20Greetings=20all,
=0D=0A=20= =20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20Do=20we=20have=20a=20relatively=20stable,=20= but=20not=20too=20strong=20'carrier=20like'=20=20=20=20=20signal=20in=20the=20vi= ncinity=20of=20137=20kHz,
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20to=20get=20a=20rough=20estimat= e=20of=20the=20local=20QRM=20level=20(by=20comparing=20that=20=20=20=20=20signal= 's=20SNR=20with=20the=20same=20receiver=20bandwidth,=20say=201=20Hz)=20?
=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20I=20get=20the=20impression=20that=20mine,=20with=20a=20loop=20ant= enna=20(low-impedance,=20=20=20=20=20broadband)=20dangling=20under=20the=20roof,= =20is=20far=20too=20high.
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20I=20didn't=20manage=20a=20sing= le=20decode=20yet,=20which=20I=20first=20blamed=20on=20a=20bug=20=20=20=20=20in=20= SL's=20timestamps=20(written=20into=20the=20decimated=20wave=20file),=20but=20si= nce=20=20=20=20=20there=20was=20also=20not=20a=20trace=20of=20Joe's=20signal=20i= n=20a=20high-res=20=20=20=20=20spectrogram,=20I=20have=20my=20doubts..
=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=2073,
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20 =20Wol= f=20DL4YHF=20.
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20= =20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0AAm=2027.11.2015=20um=2010:49=20schrieb=20Markus=20=20=20=20=20=20=20Vester:
= =0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
=20A=20few=20more=20weaker=20decodes=20occurred=20= here=20around=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20midnight, ending=20before=201=20UT.= =20The=20spectrogram=20caught=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20a short carrie= r around=200:20=20UT=20(spectrum=20showing=20on=20https://dl.dropboxuse= rcontent.com/u/26404526/EbNaut_spectrogram.png ).
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
 &nbs= p;=202015=20Nov=2026/27
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D= =0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
start =20Eb/N0 =20time=20offset
= =0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20 UT     =20dB&nbs= p;  =20seconds
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
 
= =0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A
2030    =20nil
=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202100    =201.3   &= nbsp;=201.2  =20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202130  &= nbsp; =203.9    =201.5
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =202200    =205.4    =201.9
=0D=0A=20= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202230    =207.4   &nbs= p;=202.3
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202300    =208.4&= nbsp;   =202.5
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=202330 &nbs= p;  =201.9    =203.0
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=200000    =202.2    =203.4
=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=200030    =201.0   &= nbsp;=203.5
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=200100    =20n= il
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=200130    =20nil=20
= =0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=0D=0ABest=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=2073,=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20= =20=20=20=0D=0A
Markus=20(DF6NM)
=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A= =20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20= =20=0D=0A=20 ----------MB_8D2F7624519FBC2_11FC_31032F_webmail-vm073.sysops.aol.com--