Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tAJMqusV008382 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 23:52:56 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZzY1r-00074r-Bg for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:50:11 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZzY1q-00074b-MW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:50:10 +0000 Received: from omr-a017e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.68]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzY0y-0001gv-QZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:50:09 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-aam01.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aam01.mx.aol.com [172.27.19.147]) by omr-a017e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 32F2638000A6 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:48:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-afa04b.mail.aol.com (core-afa04.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.4]) by mtaomg-aam01.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 125F238000081 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:48:59 -0500 (EST) References: <8D2F133620B7F8C-AD8-D4E6E@webmail-vm111.sysops.aol.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <8D2F133620B7F8C-AD8-D4E6E@webmail-vm111.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com (205.188.20.34) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:48:59 -0500 Message-Id: <8D2F1339CCAB2A7-14C8-8BA86@webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 17:48:58 -0500 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1447973339; bh=TZuHfKBkXs+WwyEQMgfTj3cOYWoCU5mh3L6HBFDBqAk=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=cdKoBjj6+ZhBZsLjt36lmtH8iqDGMgGUFxaq/GNHPVCr6zZXXfwSsPGXx+Zf6xVZi zOElmxXR9s7RPlUoNh3FxUOiwUyVnrL1hOJMQHVXo7eI6Ch++byX6XsbWLvCUHMWNH /FS6Cbo47jbjPpF1JwOVtZhPJSBEZuRuV40LpnhE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b1393564e51db0281 X-Scan-Signature: 1908b49407fc556987226b536cc4bad0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Antenna relays - multifilar Litz coil Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D2F1339CE2807B_14C8_155F3C_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5217 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D2F1339CE2807B_14C8_155F3C_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" =C2=A0=20...=20but=20you=20could=20additionally=20increase=C2=A0wire=20diameter=20= by=20sqrt(2)=20for=20the=20same=C2=A0coil=20length.=20Assuming=20skin=20effect=20= regime,=20this=20will=20decrease=20R=20by=20another=20factor=20of=20sqrt(2).=20I= n=20other=20words,=C2=A0same=20coil=20Q=20at=20same=20coil=20size.=20In=20total,= =20you=20get=20(2i)^2*R/2=20=3D>=C2=A0doubled=20power=20loss.=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D= =0A=20=2073,=20Markus=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mittei= lung-----=20=0D=0A=20Von:=20Andy=20Talbot=20<andy.g4jnt@gmail.com>=0D=0A=20= An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=0D=0A=20Verschickt:=20= Do,=2019=20Nov=202015=2011:36=20pm=0D=0A=20Betreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20RE:=20Re:=20An= tenna=20relays=20-=20multifilar=20Litz=20coil=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20That'= s=20a=20very=20interesting=20observation,=20and=20a=20simple=20calculation=20sho= ws=20the=20way=20it=20will=20move:=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20If=20we=20add=20some=20= extra=20||=20capacitance=20that=20is=20equal=20to=20that=20of=20the=20antenna,=20= the=20loading=20coil=20inductance=20needs=20to=20be=20halved.=20=C2=A0=20To=20a=20= rough=20first=20approximation,=20the=20number=20of=20turns=20needed=20will=20red= uce=20by=20SQRT(2)=20since=20L=20~=20N^2=20,=20so=20the=20length=20of=20winding=20= and=20coil=20R=20will=20lower=20by=20this=20amount=20too.=C2=A0=20So=20R=20becom= es=20R/SQRT(2)=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20Coil=20circulating=20current=20=C2= =A0will=20double,=20=C2=A0=20so=20additional=20loss=20is=202=20/=20SQRT(2)=0D=0A= =20=20SO=20worse,=20but=20not=20as=20bad=20as=20first=20thought=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A= =20=0D=0A=20=20'jnt=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20On=2019=20Nov= ember=202015=20at=2022:08,=20Rik=20Strobbe=20<rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>= =20wrote:=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=20=20H=0D= =0A=20=20=20indeed,=20parallel=20capacitor=20will=20increase=20the=C2=A0coil=20c= urrent,=20but=20on=20the=20other=20hand=20you=20will=20get=20resonance=20with=20= a=20smaller=20inductance.=20I=20haven't=20done=20any=20calculation=20on=20the=20= case=20(yet),=20but=20probably=20both=20effects=20(larger=20current=20vs=20small= er=20coil)=20will=20more=20or=20=20less=20compensate=20each=20other.=0D=0A=20=20= =20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=2073,=20Rik=C2=A0=20ON7YD=20-=20OR7T=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20= =0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A= =20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D2F1339CE2807B_14C8_155F3C_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A
 =20= ...=20but=20you=20could=20additi= onally=20increase wire=20diameter=20by=20sqrt(2)=20for=20the=20same co= il=20length.=20Assuming=20skin=20effect=20regime,=20this=20will=20decrease=20R=20= by=20another=20factor=20of=20sqrt(2).=20In=20other=20words, same=20coil=20Q= =20at=20same=20coil=20size.=20In=20total,=20you=20get=20(2i)^2*R/2=20=3D>&nbs= p;doubled=20power=20loss.=0D=0A=0D=0A=20= =20=0D=0A
=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
73,=20Markus
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A= =20
=0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20
=0D=0A=20Von:=20= Andy=20Talbot=20<andy.g4jnt@gmail.c= om>
=0D=0A=20An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
=0D=0A=20Verschickt:=20= Do,=2019=20Nov=202015=2011:36=20pm
=0D=0A=20Betreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20RE:=20Re:=20= Antenna=20relays=20-=20multifilar=20Litz=20coil
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D= =0A=20=20= =0D=0AThat's=20a=20very=20interesting=20observation,=20and=20= a=20simple=20calculation=20shows=20the=20way=20it=20will=20move:=20=0D=0A
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
If=20we=20add=20some=20extra=20||=20capa= citance=20that=20is=20equal=20to=20that=20of=20the=20antenna,=20the=20loading=20= coil=20inductance=20needs=20to=20be=20halved.=20 =20To=20a=20rough=20first=20= approximation,=20the=20number=20of=20turns=20needed=20will=20reduce=20by=20SQRT(= 2)=20since=20L=20~=20N^2=20,=20so=20the=20length=20of=20winding=20and=20coil=20R= =20will=20lower=20by=20this=20amount=20too. =20So=20R=20becomes=20R/SQRT(2)=
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A

=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
Coil=20ci= rculating=20current=20 will=20double,=20 =20so=20additional=20loss=20i= s=202=20/=20SQRT(2)
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
SO=20worse,=20but=20not=20as=20b= ad=20as=20first=20thought
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A

=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20= =20=0D=0A
'jnt
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A

=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D= =0A
=20=0D=0A
=0D=0A=20=20=0D= =0AOn=2019=20November=202015=20at=20= 22:08,=20Rik=20Strobbe=20<rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be>=20wrote:
=0D=0A=20= =20=20=20=20=20= =20=0D=0A
=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A

=0D= =0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A
=20=20=0D=0A<= div>H
=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A
indeed,=20parallel=20capacitor=20will=20inc= rease=20the coil=20current,=20but=20on=20the=20other=20hand=20you=20will=20= get=20resonance=20with=20a=20smaller=20inductance.=20I=20haven't=20done=20any=20= calculation=20on=20the=20case=20(yet),=20but=20probably=20both=20effects=20(larg= er=20current=20vs=20smaller=20coil)=20will=20more=20or=20=20less=20compensate=20= each=20other.
=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A73,=20Rik =20ON7YD=20-=20OR7T
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D= =0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20
= =0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20= =0D=0A=20 ----------MB_8D2F1339CE2807B_14C8_155F3C_webmail-vd001.sysops.aol.com--