Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tAJLVlZU008166 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 22:31:47 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZzWlU-0006Br-Rm for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:29:12 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZzWlU-0006Bh-FX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:29:12 +0000 Received: from omr-a010e.mx.aol.com ([204.29.186.54]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZzWkC-0001GW-2u for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 21:29:11 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-aal02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aal02.mx.aol.com [172.27.20.208]) by omr-a010e.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id BC5CB380005B for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:27:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-afa04b.mail.aol.com (core-afa04.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.4]) by mtaomg-aal02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 40EB338000085 for ; Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:27:35 -0500 (EST) References: <8D2F1280BFFEFE0-704-CC323@webmail-vm126.sysops.aol.com> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <8D2F1280BFFEFE0-704-CC323@webmail-vm126.sysops.aol.com> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 188.192.95.60 by webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com (149.174.157.129) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:27:34 -0500 Message-Id: <8D2F1283D71CCF0-12B8-B0FAC@webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [188.192.95.60] Date: Thu, 19 Nov 2015 16:27:34 -0500 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20150623; t=1447968455; bh=Gzog9nYWxGApLSPlf+54LmTfhgUc462hctHQg54omAc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=2S83j4KXJ9H6MK7cicqfulq0lpDIQTR+R8ZqxXpk8CGsqvuiSCXJ/ZE1/3YJkMCnl xS3UTEt9Z+92C3hJF81Nyjbgr5CK0PsQizaerLZ+zEKaiXGirEr+vtdpUAWaEiss7C c2Rpy5mRKJ8g8+8yTltGcAQCz2SK5kKZhlwZjvwI= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b14d0564e3ec70f8d X-Scan-Signature: 3efbf4053c1a70bbeb6c0a0cc657f05e Subject: Re: LF: EbNaut LF test from iz7slz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D2F1283D801536_12B8_1A8874_webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 5210 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D2F1283D801536_12B8_1A8874_webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" =C2=A0=C2=A0>=20You'll=20notice=20that=20with=20weak=20signals,=20say=20less=20= than=20about=20Eb/N0=20=3D=20+3dB,=20it=20becomes=20difficult=20to=20estimate=20= the=20reference=20phase=20by=20squaring=20the=20signal=20(or=20equivalently,=20c= ostas=20looping).=20=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20Yes,=20same=20here=20when=20us= ing=20the=20show_rawsyms3a=20utility.=C2=A0The=20peak=20in=20the=20skyblue=20spe= ctrum-of-squares=C2=A0=20will=20conveniently=20guide=20you=20to=20the=20correct=20= frequency=20and=20time=20offset=20if=20Eb/N0=20is=20above=204=20dB=20or=20so.=20= This=20is=20for=20rate=201/8,=20with=20more=20code=20spread=20(e.g.=20r=201/16)=20= the=20"squaring=20loss"=20will=20be=20a=20bit=20worse.=C2=A0=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=C2= =A0=0D=0A=20=20Here=20are=20the=C2=A0Eb/N0=20results=20of=20successful=C2=A0deco= des=C2=A0this=20afternoon:=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0UT=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =20dB=0D=0A=201500=C2=A0=203.1=0D=0A=201600=2011.8=0D=0A=201700=C2=A0=209.0=0D=0A= =201730=C2=A0=208.1=0D=0A=201800=C2=A0=204.4=0D=0A=201830=C2=A0=206.4=C2=A0=20**= *=0D=0A=201900=C2=A0=202.7=0D=0A=201930=C2=A0=207.9=0D=0A=202000=C2=A0=204.0=0D=0A= =202030=C2=A0=201.5=0D=0A=202100=C2=A0=206.3=0D=0A=20=20=C2=A0=0D=0A=20=20Best=20= 73,=0D=0A=20=20Markus=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngli= che=20Mitteilung-----=20=0D=0A=20Von:=20Paul=20Nicholson=20<vlf0403@abelian.o= rg>=0D=0A=20An:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>=0D=0A=20= Verschickt:=20Do,=2019=20Nov=202015=209:31=20pm=0D=0A=20Betreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20E= bNaut=20LF=20test=20from=20iz7slz=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=20=0D=0A=20=20= =0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20Markus=20wrote:=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20>=20=20I=20wou= ld't=20rule=20out=20propagational=20Doppler.=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20I=20see=20wh= at=20you=20mean,=20the=20carrier=20looks=20quite=20ragged=20on=20=0D=0A=20there=20= too.=20=20=20I=20guess=20I'm=20used=20to=20the=20nice=20sharp=20lines=20=0D=0A=20= we=20get=20a=20VLF.=20=20=20These=20super=20high=20frequencies=20are=20a=20bit=20= =0D=0A=20different!=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20But=20I=20certainly=20have=20a=20prob= lem=20with=20the=20timing=20system=20=0D=0A=20here.=20=20I'm=20capturing=20throu= gh=20the=20audio=20input=20of=20a=20=0D=0A=20BT878=20video=20chip=20sampling=20a= t=20448k/second=20and=20discipling=20=0D=0A=20the=20rate=20by=20centroid=20measu= rements=20of=20a=20pulse-per-second=20=0D=0A=20with=20the=20LF=20mixed=20in,=20s= haring=20the=20mono=20input.=20=20It's=20=0D=0A=20pushing=20things=20a=20bit=20t= o=20say=20the=20least.=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20I've=20altered=20some=20magic=20nu= mbers=20in=20vttime=20to=20get=20some=20=0D=0A=20long=20term=20stability=20at=20= the=20cost=20of=20extra=20short=20term=20jitter.=20=0D=0A=20In=20a=20few=20minut= es=20we'll=20see=20how=20the=2020:00=20message=20looks.=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20N= ice=20decode=20from=20Andy.=20=20=20Eb/N0=20from=20the=20symbol=20errors=20=0D=0A= =20is=203dB=20below=20the=20carrier=20measurement.=20=20I'm=20not=20sure=20=0D=0A= =20what=20that=20implies.=20=20=20This=20is=20all=20very=20new=20territory=20to=20= =0D=0A=20explore,=20and=20great=20fun!=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20The=2020:00=20just= =20finished.=20=20Decoded!=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20found=20rank=200:=20GE=20PAUL=20= TNX=20RPRT=20=20ps=20[=2015=20-120=20-120=20-150=20-150]=20=0D=0A=20re-encode=20= 290/1040=20ber=202.79e-01=20=20Es/N0=3D-7.6=20Eb/N0=3D2.7=20effrate=3D1/10.83=20= =0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20You'll=20notice=20that=20with=20weak=20signals,=20say=20les= s=20than=20about=20=0D=0A=20Eb/N0=20=3D=20+3dB,=20it=20becomes=20difficult=20to=20= estimate=20the=20reference=20=0D=0A=20phase=20by=20squaring=20the=20signal=20(or= =20equivalently,=20costas=20looping).=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20If=20the=20initial=20= guess=20of=20the=20reference=20phase=20is=20good,=20the=20message=20=0D=0A=20wil= l=20decode=20almost=20immediately=20with=20reference=20phase=20pattern=20=0D=0A=20= 0=200=200=200=20or=20180=20180=20180=20180.=20=20But=20you=20can=20see=20from=20= mine=20an=20=0D=0A=20Andy's=20decodes=20that=20the=20initial=20guess=20based=20o= n=20squaring=20was=20=0D=0A=20poor,=20and=20the=20program=20really=20has=20to=20= do=20some=20trial=20and=20error=20=0D=0A=20to=20get=20the=20best=20decode,=20whi= ch=20is=20coming=20out=20some=2060=20deg=20=0D=0A=20adrift=20from=20the=20initia= l=20guess.=20=20=20When=20you=20get=20down=20to=20around=20=0D=0A=20zero=20Eb/N0= =20the=20initial=20guess=20is=20pretty=20worthless.=20=20This=20=0D=0A=20is=20on= e=20of=20the=20key=20features=20that=20sets=20EbNaut=20apart=20from=20=0D=0A=20o= ther=20coherent=20modes:=20it=20doesn't=20rely=20at=20all=20on=20trying=20to=20=0D= =0A=20extract=20a=20reference=20phase.=20=20This=20is=20what=20allows=20it=20to=20= =0D=0A=20go=20well=20below=203dB.=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20--=20=0D=0A=20Paul=20Ni= cholson=20=0D=0A=20--=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20= =20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D2F1283D801536_12B8_1A8874_webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A
 <= font=20color=3D"black"=20face=3D"arial"> >=20You'll=20notice=20that=20with=20weak=20signals,=20= say=20less=20than=20about=20Eb/N0=20=3D=20+3dB,=20it=20becomes=20difficult=20to=20= estimate=20the=20reference=20phase=20by=20squaring=20the=20signal=20(or=20equiva= lently,=20costas=20looping).=20
=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=
Yes,=20same=20here=20when=20using=20the=20show_rawsyms3a=20utility. Th= e=20peak=20in=20the=20skyblue=20spectrum-of-squares =20will=20conveniently=20= guide=20you=20to=20the=20correct=20frequency=20and=20time=20offset=20if=20Eb/N0=20= is=20above=204=20dB=20or=20so.=20This=20is=20for=20rate=201/8,=20with=20more=20c= ode=20spread=20(e.g.=20r=201/16)=20the=20"squaring=20loss"=20will=20be=20a=20bit= =20worse.  
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=
Here=20are=20the Eb/N0=20results=20of=20successful decodes t= his=20afternoon:
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
=  UT   =20dB
=0D=0A=201500 =203.1
=0D=0A=201600=20= 11.8
=0D=0A=201700 =209.0
=0D=0A=201730 =208.1
=0D=0A=201800&= nbsp;=204.4
=0D=0A=201830 =206.4 =20***
=0D=0A=201900 =202.= 7
=0D=0A=201930 =207.9
=0D=0A=202000 =204.0
=0D=0A=202030&nbs= p;=201.5
=0D=0A=202100 =206.3
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
 
=0D= =0A=20=20=0D=0A
Best=2073,
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A
Markus
=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A

=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20= Mitteilung-----=20
=0D=0A=20Von:=20Paul=20Nicholson=20<vlf0403@abelian.org>
=0D=0A=20An:=20rsgb_lf_grou= p=20<rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org>
=0D=0A=20Verschickt:=20Do,=2019=20Nov=202015=209:31=20pm
=0D= =0A=20Betreff:=20Re:=20LF:=20EbNaut=20LF=20test=20from=20iz7slz
=0D=0A=20
= =0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20= =20
=0D=0A=20Markus=20wrote:=20
=0D= =0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20>=20=20I=20would't=20rule=20out=20propagational=20Do= ppler.=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20I=20see=20what=20you=20mean,=20the=20carri= er=20looks=20quite=20ragged=20on=20
=0D=0A=20there=20too.=20=20=20I=20guess=20= I'm=20used=20to=20the=20nice=20sharp=20lines=20
=0D=0A=20we=20get=20a=20VLF.=20= =20=20These=20super=20high=20frequencies=20are=20a=20bit=20
=0D=0A=20differen= t!=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20But=20I=20certainly=20have=20a=20problem=20wit= h=20the=20timing=20system=20
=0D=0A=20here.=20=20I'm=20capturing=20through=20= the=20audio=20input=20of=20a=20
=0D=0A=20BT878=20video=20chip=20sampling=20at= =20448k/second=20and=20discipling=20
=0D=0A=20the=20rate=20by=20centroid=20me= asurements=20of=20a=20pulse-per-second=20
=0D=0A=20with=20the=20LF=20mixed=20= in,=20sharing=20the=20mono=20input.=20=20It's=20
=0D=0A=20pushing=20things=20= a=20bit=20to=20say=20the=20least.=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20I've=20altered=20= some=20magic=20numbers=20in=20vttime=20to=20get=20some=20
=0D=0A=20long=20ter= m=20stability=20at=20the=20cost=20of=20extra=20short=20term=20jitter.=20
=0D=0A= =20In=20a=20few=20minutes=20we'll=20see=20how=20the=2020:00=20message=20looks.=20=
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20Nice=20decode=20from=20Andy.=20=20=20Eb/N0=20from=20= the=20symbol=20errors=20
=0D=0A=20is=203dB=20below=20the=20carrier=20measurem= ent.=20=20I'm=20not=20sure=20
=0D=0A=20what=20that=20implies.=20=20=20This=20= is=20all=20very=20new=20territory=20to=20
=0D=0A=20explore,=20and=20great=20f= un!=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20The=2020:00=20just=20finished.=20=20Decoded!=20=
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20found=20rank=200:=20GE=20PAUL=20TNX=20RPRT=20=20ps=20= [=2015=20-120=20-120=20-150=20-150]=20
=0D=0A=20re-encode=20290/1040=20ber=20= 2.79e-01=20=20Es/N0=3D-7.6=20Eb/N0=3D2.7=20effrate=3D1/10.83=20
=0D=0A=20=20<= br>=0D=0A=20You'll=20notice=20that=20with=20weak=20signals,=20say=20less=20than=20= about=20
=0D=0A=20Eb/N0=20=3D=20+3dB,=20it=20becomes=20difficult=20to=20estim= ate=20the=20reference=20
=0D=0A=20phase=20by=20squaring=20the=20signal=20(or=20= equivalently,=20costas=20looping).=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20If=20the=20ini= tial=20guess=20of=20the=20reference=20phase=20is=20good,=20the=20message=20
=0D= =0A=20will=20decode=20almost=20immediately=20with=20reference=20phase=20pattern=20=
=0D=0A=200=200=200=200=20or=20180=20180=20180=20180.=20=20But=20you=20can=20= see=20from=20mine=20an=20
=0D=0A=20Andy's=20decodes=20that=20the=20initial=20= guess=20based=20on=20squaring=20was=20
=0D=0A=20poor,=20and=20the=20program=20= really=20has=20to=20do=20some=20trial=20and=20error=20
=0D=0A=20to=20get=20th= e=20best=20decode,=20which=20is=20coming=20out=20some=2060=20deg=20
=0D=0A=20= adrift=20from=20the=20initial=20guess.=20=20=20When=20you=20get=20down=20to=20ar= ound=20
=0D=0A=20zero=20Eb/N0=20the=20initial=20guess=20is=20pretty=20worthle= ss.=20=20This=20
=0D=0A=20is=20one=20of=20the=20key=20features=20that=20sets=20= EbNaut=20apart=20from=20
=0D=0A=20other=20coherent=20modes:=20it=20doesn't=20= rely=20at=20all=20on=20trying=20to=20
=0D=0A=20extract=20a=20reference=20phas= e.=20=20This=20is=20what=20allows=20it=20to=20
=0D=0A=20go=20well=20below=203= dB.=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20--=20
=0D=0A=20Paul=20Nicholson=20
=0D=0A= =20--=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A=20=
=0D=0A=20=20=20
=0D=0A=20=20=0D=0A=20 ----------MB_8D2F1283D801536_12B8_1A8874_webmail-vm090.sysops.aol.com--