Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1356; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tA6HJNV8003760 for ; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 18:19:23 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZukcU-0002fB-Br for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:16:10 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZukcT-0002en-HW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:16:09 +0000 Received: from s16315160.onlinehome-server.info ([87.106.80.234] helo=mail.vigilant.es) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZukbS-0008Kv-7o for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Nov 2015 17:16:08 +0000 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([87.216.178.132]) by vigilant.es with MailEnable ESMTP; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 18:14:24 +0100 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Fri, 6 Nov 2015 18:14:31 +0100 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: MF CW now Thread-Index: AQHRGLN8oaa/ORSoNUWSCZEVJOlMfp6PNi8g Date: Fri, 6 Nov 2015 17:14:30 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B28029A@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <563CD7EC.5090001@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: 98008414004cfc60a8b07784a56e6dc8 Subject: LF: RE: MF CW now Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B28029Aservigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4848 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B28029Aservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Sorry Stefan Not at QTH now. That's the good side of digital modes. They can run alone a= t home, like my fish tank :-))) The antenna is not perfectly matched. I'm running the PA at shack and have = 30m coax. I adjust the variometer by hand with the analyzer and when measuring down in the shack it is not the same. = But anyway it makes the job No output transformer yet, just the coil and another small one as variomete= r inside PA output is 60V RMS over 50R load. I'm measuring 74V now because load is n= ot perfect. The power supply now at 13V5 and 7A So I don't think there are 100w but probably closer to 70w Will be interesting to know exactly which is the antenna current And yes, legal limit is 1W. But we are all, ALWAYS willing to reach that ..= .. we poor hams ! ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: viernes, 06 de noviembre de 2015 17:40 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: LF: MF CW now Luis, I see you are now TXing in WSPR again. So you are at home and on air. Maybe= we can try in CW now? I will go to call CQ! on 472.2 kHz. Maybe it is a go= od time to try now during our sunset!? 73, Stefan Am 06.11.2015 17:29, schrieb DK7FC: Hi Luis, What did i say!?! You can get +40 dB over the horizontal loop and +20 dB ov= er the unloaded vertical :-) Also your PA is more relaxed now i think. You are by far the strongest station in EA so far on MF and it was a first = transatlantic decode i think, for EA. 70W? Thought it is a 100W PA. So the matching isn't accurate yet? Or do you= run less supply voltage? I also saw the daytime decodes by DH5RAE. A challenge for my tree project! = :-) Do you have some further ideas now what to do with the antenna or is the pr= oject finished now? :-) OK about Markus' explanations. I think your antenna is something like a sho= rt dipole, with one leg close to ground, with an excentric feed point and a= ll this is rotated by 90 deg! :-) 73, Stefan Am 06.11.2015 12:07, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Hi Stefan, MF A resonating antenna is a blessing ! But a vertical antenna on top of a 80m= building tower is double blessing ;-) I have a very busy schedule this days, so had to finish the coil and variom= eter and installed it yesterday night in darkness It was a shock to see >30 stations spotting my first WSPR Tx and on the thi= rd got FR5ZX. And the results of this night produced also decodes in north America by VE1HF and WD2XSH Even getting daylight decodes this morning by DH5RAE and looks like the sig= nal is visible at Stefan grabber. Last decode from DH5RAE at 10:48 UTC -26dB is amazing :-O I'm also transmitting Opera8 as the PA is just sleeping now that there is a= matched load on the other side (70W output) The long ground line of the antenna at 80m being a thick water pipe down to= building basements is the key, as Markus predicted Please let me recall his comments here: But the good thing is that effective height will be much larger, because a = significant part of the displacement current will not return to the roof bu= t go the "long way" down to ground zero. This is also why a miniwhip on a p= ole receives larger signals. Details depend on the exact geometry (eg. the = relative thickness of the "mast"), but a good guess is taking the geometric= mean between the height of the house and the effective height of the anten= na itself if it was above flat ground. In your case, this would be sqrt(80m*5.5m) =3D 21m, which is way above aver= age compared to most amateur antennas. Radiation resistance would be 1.75 o= hms, so in theory you'd need only 0.56 A to achieve 1 W ERP... All the best, Markus (DF6NM) That was a BINGO Markus ! Next step is to accurately measure RF current. May be I'm well over 1W ERP = .... Thank you to all you guys to help me achieve this :-) Ops ! CW QSOs .... Yes, I can do some CW but need refreshing it a little. W= e will make many FIRST as there has been some EA activity before on MF but not sure if they worked many countries. Workload at job pr= essing this days and a trip to Mexico at the end of this month Keep tuned ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: viernes, 06 de noviembre de 2015 0:41 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: LF: EA5DOM Hello Luis, Your 11m vertical leaves a SNR of 0 dB here in WSPR now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-) That means we can easily do a CW QSO! Timestamp Call MHz SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter = RGrid km az 2015-11-05 23:32 EA5DOM 0.475793 0 0 IM= 98wn 0.5 DK7FC/P JN49ik 1398 27 2015-11-05 23:24 EA5DOM 0.475793 -3 0 IM= 98wn 0.5 DK7FC/P JN49ik 1398 27 Do we want to try soon? Are you a CW man? It would be my first to EA on tha= t band. 73, Stefan Am 05.11.2015 23:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Wops !! 2015-11-05 22:48 EA5DOM 0.475790 -20 0 IM= 98wn 0.05 FR5ZX LG78pu 8796 New coil ! Antenna is finally on resonance ..... and seems to work ! ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de] Enviado: jueves, 5 de noviembre de 2015 22:39 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: LF: FR5ZX WSPR again Hi all, The path is open again! Give it a try. 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B28029Aservigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Sorry Stefan
 
Not at QTH now. That's the good s= ide of digital modes. They can run alone at home, like my fish tank :-)))
 
The antenna is not perfectly matc= hed. I'm running the PA at shack and have 30m coax. I adjust the variometer= by hand
with the analyzer and when measur= ing down in the shack it is not the same. But anyway it makes the job
No output transformer yet, just t= he coil and another small one as variometer inside
 
PA output is 60V RMS over 50R loa= d. I'm measuring 74V now because load is not perfect. The power s= upply now at 13V5 and 7A  
So I don't think there are 100w but probably closer to 70w
 
Will be interesting to know exactly which is the antenna cur= rent
 
And yes, legal limit is 1W. But we are all, ALWAYS willing t= o reach that .... we poor hams ! ;-) 
 
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: viernes, 06 de noviembre de 2015 17:40
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: LF: MF CW now

Luis,

I see you are now TXing in WSPR again. So you are at home and on air. Maybe= we can try in CW now? I will go to call CQ! on 472.2 kHz. Maybe it is a go= od time to try now during our sunset!?

73, Stefan

Am 06.11.2015 17:29, schrieb DK7FC:
Hi Luis, =

What did i say!?! You can get +40 dB over the horizontal loop and += 20 dB over the unloaded vertical :-) Also your PA is more relaxed now i thi= nk.
You are by far the strongest station in EA so far on MF and it was a first = transatlantic decode i think, for EA.
70W? Thought it is a 100W PA. So the matching isn't accurate yet? Or do you= run less supply voltage?
I also saw the daytime decodes by DH5RAE. A challenge for my tree project! = :-)
Do you have some further ideas now what to do with the antenna or is the pr= oject finished now? :-)

OK about Markus' explanations. I think your antenna is something like a sho= rt dipole, with one leg close to ground, with an excentric feed point and a= ll this is rotated by 90 deg! :-)

73, Stefan

Am 06.11.2015 12:07, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Hi Stefan, MF
&= nbsp;
A resonating antenna is a blessin= g ! But a vertical antenna on top of a 80m building tower is= double blessing  ;-)
&= nbsp;
I have a very busy schedule this = days, so had to finish the coil and variometer and installed it yesterday n= ight in darkness
&= nbsp;
It was a shock to see >30 stat= ions spotting my first WSPR Tx and on the third got FR5ZX. And the results = of this
night produced also decodes in no= rth America by VE1HF and WD2XSH
&= nbsp;
Even getting daylight decode= s this morning by DH5RAE and looks like the signal is visible at Stefa= n grabber. Last decode
from DH5RAE at 10:48 UTC -26dB is= amazing :-O
&= nbsp;
I'm also transmitting Opera8 as t= he PA is just sleeping now that there is a matched load on the other side (= 70W output)
&= nbsp;
The long ground line of= the antenna at 80m being a thick water pipe down to building bas= ements is the key, as Markus predicted
Please let me recall his com= ments here:

But the good thing is that effective height will be much larger, because= a significant part of the displacement current will not return to the roof= but go the "long way" down to ground zero. This is also why a mi= niwhip on a pole receives larger signals. Details depend on the exact geometry (eg. the relative thickness of the &q= uot;mast"), but a good guess is taking the geometric mean between the = height of the house and the effective height of the antenna itself if it wa= s above flat ground.

In your case, this would be sqrt(80m*5.5m) =3D 21m, which is way above a= verage compared to most amateur antennas. Radiation resistance would be 1.7= 5 ohms, so in theory you'd need only 0.56 A to achieve 1 W ERP...

All the best,

Markus (DF6NM)

That was a BINGO Markus !
&= nbsp;
Next step is to accurately measur= e RF current. May be I'm well over 1W ERP ....
&= nbsp;
Thank you to all you guys to help= me achieve this :-)
&= nbsp;
Ops ! CW QSOs .... Yes, I can do = some CW but need refreshing it a little. We will make many FIRST as there h= as been some EA activity
before on MF but not sure if they= worked many countries. Workload at job pressing this days and a trip to Me= xico at the end of this month
&= nbsp;
Keep tuned ;-)
&= nbsp;
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: viernes, 06 de noviembre de 2015 0:41
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: LF: EA5DOM

Hello Luis,

Your 11m vertical leaves a SNR of 0 dB here in WSPR now!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!= !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-)
That means we can easily do a CW QSO!

Timestamp Call MHz SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az
 2015-11-05 23:32   EA5DOM   0.475793   0   0   IM98wn   0.5   DK7FC/P   JN49ik   1398   27 
 2015-11-05 23:24   EA5DOM   0.475793   -3   0   IM98wn   0.5   DK7FC/P   JN49ik   1398   27 


Do we want to try soon? Are you a CW man? It would be my first to EA on tha= t band.

73, Stefan

Am 05.11.2015 23:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: 
Wops !!=20

 2015-11-05 22:48 	 EA5DOM 	 0.475790 	 -20 	 0 	 IM98wn 	 0.05 	 FR5ZX 	 L=
G78pu 	 8796=20

New coil ! Antenna is finally on resonance  ..... and seems to work ! ;-)

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
________________________________________
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.o=
rg [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe=
ep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@po=
steo.de]
Enviado: jueves, 5 de noviembre de 2015 22:39
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: LF: FR5ZX WSPR again

Hi all,

The path is open again! Give it a try.

73, Stefan
--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B28029Aservigilantvigi_--