Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1170; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: ** X-Spam-Status: No, score=2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK,HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id tA4HZkKn028060 for ; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 18:35:46 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Zu1uM-0005Dp-U4 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:31:38 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Zu1uM-0005Dg-Cv for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:31:38 +0000 Received: from rgout0605.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.132]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1Zu1tL-0000re-07 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Nov 2015 17:31:37 +0000 X-OWM-Source-IP: 86.130.246.40 (GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: alan.melia@btinternet.com X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090204.563A40AB.002A,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=39/50,refid=2.7.2:2015.11.4.160015:17:39.532,ip=86.130.246.40,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __SANE_MSGID, MSGID_32HEX_LC, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __MSGID_32HEX, __HAS_FROM, __PHISH_FROM2, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL_FROM, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __REFERENCES, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __URI_NO_WWW, __URI_NO_PATH, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, __INT_PROD_TV, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HTML_AHREF_TAG, __HAS_HTML, HTML_NO_HTTP, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_10000_LESS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, __URI_NS, SXL_IP_DYNAMIC[40.246.130.86.fur], RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, __PHISH_FROM, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, FORGED_MUA_OUTLOOK, REFERENCES, NO_URI_HTTPS X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from gnat (86.130.246.40) by rgout06.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.122.06) (authenticated as alan.melia@btinternet.com) id 563A0AC2000701F3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:30:18 +0000 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btinternet.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1446658235; bh=EwUs59QJ2BvrE4ySQ3zQHIhXOB0W9a5BmLLKCJyu5+I=; h=Message-ID:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=DSl2tWal+mMotlUYD/PbnHjTARG1EKOREWcrhOBm1gPqEVJV0wq49KsVsvitNPxpxAKFtmss9QdYmZSp4+gQK4yDMGtTXNe6euKE/A1aL+L8Tvj00QDuvT4lWaekBLN2zIvAj98RJvWufCZxm8vrTEdPbifQdTQ36Xnqj8hEoTI= Message-ID: <4A55E0F3B6AF495EA9DDA25E2688BD62@gnat> From: "Alan Melia" To: References: <1843908200.20151104162925@chriswilson.tv><40C5B8C3-7D79-403C-819F-F55EEB4FE905@gmail.com> Date: Wed, 4 Nov 2015 17:29:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.5931 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.6157 X-Scan-Signature: f0da950ecedac2a84ae70831926f1b39 Subject: Re: LF: Capacitive top hat question Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00A1_01D11726.50B17BE0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4817 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01D11726.50B17BE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable When I used to visit the Radio Club in Liverpool in the late 50s we met = in a church hall just off Queens drive. One local with topband mobile = parked in the drive would fire up 10W of top band take out a tube from = the rear of his A35 van, strike it and walk round the van. We got many = "double-takes" from passers by ......it was a 15inch circular tube and = he was holding it above his head like a halo :-)) Under the top wire it doesnt mean the horizonal wire is radiating but = there will be a vertical field sufficient to strike the tube to near = full brilliance.....RF excitation is very efficient. but you are in the = near field and radiation of the current in the loop will mainly be = cancelled by the induced current in the ground. I suppose any far-field = RF would go straight up anyway? Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Andy Talbot=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, November 04, 2015 5:00 PM Subject: Re: LF: Capacitive top hat question The fluorescent light in my shack is located only 3m below the end of = my top hat - with roof tiles and plasterboard in the way. In dry = weather lights quite bright when I transmit, with even as little as 100 = Watts into the antenna. Andy G4JNT On 4 November 2015 at 16:51, John Rabson = wrote: I have no experience of this at 136, but I remember visiting Ernie = G3ERN at his QTH in Harlow and finding that I could walk all around the = back yard and light a fluorescent tube when he keyed his top band mobile = transmitter. This had a horizontal loading coil the length of a Commer = J2 van with a shortish vertical whip at the opposite end from the feed. It must have radiated fairly well as some time about 1963 I had a = contact with him on a summer afternoon. He was in the New Forest and I = was on Sark. 73 John F5VLF > On 04 Nov 2015, at 17:29, Chris Wilson = wrote: > > 04 November 2015 > > > On my 136khz set up I have a short piece of ladder line (about 16 = feet > high, strapped together at the base only) feeding the corner of my > horizontal quad loop, which is about 460 feet in circumference. If = I > am TX'ing with WSPR I can walk around under all of the loop and a > fluorescent tube at waist height will light quite brightly. Should = the > loop also radiate as well as the vertical section? Sorry for the > probably naive question, I am not sure whether it's normal or not, > thanks. > > > > -- > > > Best regards, > Chris mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv > > john.rabson07@gmail.com Researching history of RABSON, BLACKSHAW, GAUNTLETT, VERLANDER and = ROBSONNE ------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01D11726.50B17BE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
When I used to visit the Radio Club in = Liverpool in=20 the late 50s we met in a church hall just off Queens drive. One local = with=20 topband mobile parked in the drive would fire up 10W of top band take = out a tube=20 from the rear of his A35 van, strike it and walk round the van. We got = many=20 "double-takes" from passers by ......it was a 15inch circular tube and = he was=20 holding it above his head like a halo :-))
 
Under the top wire it doesnt = mean the=20 horizonal wire is radiating but there will be a vertical field = sufficient=20 to strike the tube to near full brilliance.....RF excitation is very = efficient.=20 but you are in the near field and radiation of the current in the loop = will=20 mainly be cancelled by the induced current in the ground. I suppose any=20 far-field RF would go straight up anyway?
 
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Andy=20 Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, November 04, = 2015 5:00=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Capacitive top = hat=20 question

The fluorescent light in my shack is located only 3m = below the=20 end of my top hat - with roof tiles and plasterboard in the way. =   In dry=20 weather lights quite bright when I transmit, with even as little as = 100 Watts=20 into the antenna.

Andy  G4JNT

On 4 November 2015 at 16:51, John Rabson = <john.rabson07@gmail.com> wrote:
I have no experience of this at 136, but I = remember=20 visiting Ernie G3ERN at his QTH in Harlow and finding that I could = walk all=20 around the back yard and light a fluorescent tube when he keyed his = top band=20 mobile transmitter. This had a horizontal loading coil the length of = a=20 Commer J2 van with a shortish vertical whip at the opposite end from = the=20 feed.

It must have radiated fairly well as some time about = 1963 I had=20 a contact with him on a summer afternoon. He was in the New Forest = and I was=20 on Sark.

73 John F5VLF

> On 04 Nov 2015, at 17:29, = Chris=20 Wilson <chris@chriswilson.tv>=20 wrote:
>
> 04 November 2015
>
>
> On = my 136khz=20 set up I have a short piece of ladder line (about 16 feet
> = high,=20 strapped together at the base only) feeding the corner of my
> = horizontal quad loop, which is about 460 feet in circumference. If = I
>=20 am TX'ing with WSPR I can walk around under all of the loop and = a
>=20 fluorescent tube at waist height will light quite brightly. Should=20 the
> loop also radiate as well as the vertical section? Sorry = for=20 the
> probably naive question, I am not sure whether it's = normal or=20 not,
> thanks.
>
>
>
>=20 --
>
>
> Best regards,
> Chris    =  =20                   =    =20 mailto:chris@chriswilson.tv
>
= >

john.rabson07@gmail.com
Researching=20 history of RABSON, BLACKSHAW, GAUNTLETT, VERLANDER and=20 = ROBSONNE






------=_NextPart_000_00A1_01D11726.50B17BE0--