Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.7 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE,RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t9JLhaUM029285 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:43:36 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZoI9H-0000xr-Gk for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:39:19 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZoI9H-0000xi-1v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:39:19 +0100 Received: from mout01.posteo.de ([185.67.36.65]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384:256) (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZoI8E-0002tq-Rr for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 22:39:17 +0100 Received: from dovecot03.posteo.de (dovecot03.posteo.de [172.16.0.13]) by mout01.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CBAB520A10 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Received: from mail.posteo.de (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by dovecot03.posteo.de (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 3nfrzS3w2qz5vN3 for ; Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:37:56 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <562562B3.8080005@posteo.de> Date: Mon, 19 Oct 2015 23:37:55 +0200 From: DK7FC User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 6.1; de; rv:1.9.1.8) Gecko/20100227 Thunderbird/3.0.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B229447@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B229447@servigilant.vigilant.local> X-Scan-Signature: fc32c5c0e50cb002bc32bc9e852d4987 Subject: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------030509020903010303020106" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4533 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030509020903010303020106 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Luis, Lol. Yes, maybe an antenna analyzer helps to understand things. For the coil i would use isolated mains electric wire. We have 1.5mm^2 and 2.5mm^2 here in DL. Also there is 0.75mm^2 for some installations. 0.75 or 1.5 is a good choice for you i would say. I think you can get a Q of 250 or so, which is fine. But sooner or later you will need a bigger PA, HI :-) 73, Stefan Am 19.10.2015 17:24, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: > Hi Fausto, Stefan, MF > That's what I need. Discussion and brain storming ! :-) > Yes. The coil has too many wounds and should be about 3.9mH > It is the first time I ty to make such a thing so I used all the wire > I had to see what I can get. I can redo it and it is part > of the game. No problem > The internal variometer is what everybody uses in such a big coils. > So, has sense to go that way > >>Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But > anyway, be careful with high voltage! > > Thank you for the advice > Anyway I'll not show this pictures to my wife :-)))) > >>have you an idea about the Q of this coil? > > Absolutely NO idea Fausto :( > I'm also unable to understand how a bare 11m antenna without top hat > is working now without any load coil, no matching adaptor and with may > be 90w > I'm getting reports over 1800km. What I measure is the PA consumption: > 8A at 12V and the RMS on ouput is 149V > Does it means about 250ohm on antenna ? > The counterpoise may be bigger than I thought. I remind that the coax > I'm using now has a gas discharge device connected to > mains ground. So the whole mains ground in the building should be > working as counterpoise > BTW. An antenna analyzer is on the way. Thought I could live without > it but seems not ;-) > 73 de Luis > EA5DOM > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > *De:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *En nombre de *DK7FC > *Enviado el:* lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 14:45 > *Para:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > *Asunto:* Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical > > Hi Luis, > > Nice looking coil. It has a good ratio between diameter and length > although it would have been better to have a small gap between the > wire turns. And i didn't expect that you need so much L. What is the L > of this coil? Looks like 3 mH or so. You will need about 2 mH. But i > can't se the actual number of turns. Probably it is just right :-) > I would build my own variometer, i.e. drill 2 holes into the tube, add > an axis and put another coil on this axis. > https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg > Like this image. Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i > think. But anyway, be careful with high voltage! > > Good luck! > > 73, Stefan > > > Am 19.10.2015 12:52, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: >> Hi Stefan >> This is a picture of the coil >> 25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm high >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00571.jpg >> I can also fit this variometer on the top side of the pipe >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00559.jpg >> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/CAM00558.jpg >> The -3dB of my signals yesterday are probably due to QRN on the Rx. >> We had a big storm down in south EA >> Another one is predicted for tomorrow just here and strong rain. No >> good for installing the coil >> 73 de Luis >> EA5DOM >> >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> *De:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *En nombre de *DK7FC >> *Enviado el:* domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015 23:20 >> *Para:* rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> *Asunto:* Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical >> >> Hi Luis, >> >> Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández: >>> For the transformer I plan to recycle the one osed for the loop. It >>> has two big toroids 80mm external diameter >>> and 8mm thick. Both joined make 16mm thick. Unfortunately don't know >>> which is the material used >> Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow :-) But just start with a 1:1 >> transformer and a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first test. If the >> transformer stays cold and the load (e.g. power consumption, or >> current meter reading of the power supply) is the same with or >> without the transformer, everything is fine. >> >>> >>> Can be primary and secondary be wounded one on top of the other ?? >> Yes, this is recommended! >> >>> Tonight reports on my remote monitor are 3dB down. I made a modification >>> I have finally connected a wire from top terrace to the fire >>> extinguish pipe which runs inside the building down >>> to the basements, were pumping system is located. The wire is not >>> yet connected to the ground side of the vertical >>> BUT the actual radial counterpoise runs parallel to this wire for >>> about 5m >>> >>> Seems like this can be the cause of 3dB looses. >> ...but maybe the situation is different when matching the PA >> properly. In the moment you don't know at all what the feed point >> impedance is. ...and how the PA behaves at that impedance connected. >>> Keep tuned ! >> RR. GL, >> >> 73, Stefan --------------030509020903010303020106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Hi Luis,

Lol. Yes, maybe an antenna analyzer helps to understand things.
For the coil i would use isolated mains electric wire. We have 1.5mm^2 and 2.5mm^2 here in DL. Also there is 0.75mm^2 for some installations. 0.75 or 1.5 is a good choice for you i would say. I think you can get a Q of 250 or so, which is fine. But sooner or later you will need a bigger PA, HI :-)
73, Stefan

Am 19.10.2015 17:24, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández:
Hi Fausto, Stefan, MF
 
That's what I need. Discussion and brain storming ! :-)
 
Yes. The coil has too many wounds and should be about 3.9mH
It is the first time I ty to make such a thing so I used all the wire I had to see what I can get. I can redo it and it is part
of the game. No problem
 
The internal variometer is what everybody uses in such a big coils. So, has sense to go that way 
 
>>Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But anyway, be careful with high voltage!

Thank you for the advice
Anyway I'll not show this pictures to my wife :-))))
 
>>have you an idea about the Q of this coil?

 Absolutely NO idea Fausto :(
 
I'm also unable to understand how a bare 11m antenna without top hat is working now without any load coil, no matching adaptor and with may be 90w
I'm getting reports over 1800km. What I measure is the PA consumption: 8A at 12V and the RMS on ouput is 149V
Does it means about 250ohm on antenna ?
 
The counterpoise may be bigger than I thought. I remind that the coax I'm using now has a gas discharge device connected to
mains ground. So the whole mains ground in the building should be working as counterpoise
 
BTW. An antenna analyzer is on the way. Thought I could live without it but seems not  ;-)
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM
 
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: lunes, 19 de octubre de 2015 14:45
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Nice looking coil. It has a good ratio between diameter and length although it would have been better to have a small gap between the wire turns. And i didn't expect that you need so much L. What is the L of this coil? Looks like 3 mH or so. You will need about 2 mH. But i can't se the actual number of turns. Probably it is just right :-)
I would build my own variometer, i.e. drill 2 holes into the tube, add an axis and put another coil on this axis.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/20141027_203720.jpg Like this image. Ehm, what you can see there will not happen to you i think. But anyway, be careful with high voltage!

Good luck!

73, Stefan


Am 19.10.2015 12:52, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández:
Hi Stefan
 
This is a picture of the coil
25cm diameter pipe, 90 cm high
 
 
I can also fit this variometer on the top side of the pipe
 
 
The -3dB of my signals yesterday are probably due to QRN on the Rx. We had a big storm down in south EA
 
Another one is predicted for tomorrow just here and strong rain. No good for installing the coil
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: domingo, 18 de octubre de 2015 23:20
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: EA5DOM going vertical

Hi Luis,

Am 18.10.2015 21:59, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fernández:
For the transformer I plan to recycle the one osed for the loop. It has two big toroids 80mm external diameter
and 8mm thick. Both joined make 16mm thick. Unfortunately don't know which is the material used
Hm, sounds not optimal, somehow :-) But just start with a 1:1 transformer and a 50 Ohm dummy load as a first test. If the transformer stays cold and the load (e.g. power consumption, or current meter reading of the power supply) is the same with or without the transformer, everything is fine.


Can be primary and secondary be wounded one on top of the other ??
Yes, this is recommended!
Tonight reports on my remote monitor are 3dB down. I made a modification
I have finally connected a wire from top terrace to the fire extinguish pipe which runs inside the building down
to the basements, were pumping system is located. The wire is not yet connected to the ground side of the vertical
BUT the actual radial counterpoise runs parallel to this wire for about 5m

Seems like this can be the cause of 3dB looses.
...but maybe the situation is different when matching the PA properly. In the moment you don't know at all what the feed point impedance is. ...and how the PA behaves at that impedance connected.
 Keep tuned !
RR. GL,

73, Stefan
--------------030509020903010303020106--