Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1170; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t9P0HaoX016300 for ; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 02:17:36 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Zq8xX-0000ab-6n for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:14:51 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Zq8xW-0000aG-DB for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:14:50 +0100 Received: from mtaout002-public.msg.strl.va.charter.net ([68.114.190.27] helo=mtaout002.msg.strl.va.charter.net) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1Zq8wW-0006MO-FJ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Oct 2015 01:14:49 +0100 Received: from impout004 ([68.114.189.19]) by mtaout002.msg.strl.va.charter.net (InterMail vM.9.00.020.01 201-2473-160) with ESMTP id <20151025001326.GTGJ16519.mtaout002.msg.strl.va.charter.net@impout004> for ; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:13:26 -0500 Received: from [192.168.1.4] ([74.75.243.66]) by impout004 with charter.net id ZCDR1r00K1SgBKe01CDR0Y; Sat, 24 Oct 2015 19:13:26 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.1 cv=OIGp3EqB c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=rezSZqGfs9IACzzlMsPgTQ==:117 a=rezSZqGfs9IACzzlMsPgTQ==:17 a=hOpmn2quAAAA:8 a=HmCT5iXHAAAA:8 a=F3M5lZpKAAAA:8 a=dwIC8qg6AAAA:8 a=QIE7WmylmRpseA2zfscA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=69EAbJreAAAA:8 a=OJY2AhF1VQZ4lQwKvCUA:9 a=7nFNMhs0wWvbyOtQ:21 a=QEXdDO2ut3YA:10 a=vsXivbhLMk0A:10 a=_W_S_7VecoQA:10 a=NWVoK91CQyQA:10 X-Auth-id: dzF0YWdAY2hhcnRlci5uZXQ= References: <8D2DCB586344FC2-FD8-744AA8@webmail-vd011.sysops.aol.com> <15F6C5D23D6C469B9FE6E3C21C6ABBD7@gnat> From: John Andrews X-Mailer: iPad Mail (12H321) In-Reply-To: Message-Id: <086B07B4-2E5B-4618-A543-C46466817408@charter.net> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 20:13:25 -0400 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Mime-Version: 1.0 (1.0) X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 68.114.190.27 (mtaout002-public.msg.strl.va.charter.net) used invalid HELO/EHLO mtaout002.msg.strl.va.charter.net - verification failed X-Scan-Signature: 46fde0e85bb17687e691200506d0382f Subject: Re: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 and warm ceramic feed thrus Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=Apple-Mail-8D41B47E-AF7A-4557-B124-A474EF50475F Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4640 --Apple-Mail-8D41B47E-AF7A-4557-B124-A474EF50475F Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I remember a graveyard maintenance shift many years ago, when my boss observ= ed that a braid wire connection clipped onto a coil in a MF power divider wa= s looking kind of shabby. Not being able to find a piece of flat copper, he t= ried length of stainless steel "Wraplock", which started out nice and shiny.= After a few minutes of operation, it got very warm, and turned black. We qu= ickly located some copper.=20 John, W1TAG > On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:52 PM, Alan Melia wrote:= >=20 > Well there is a cohort of noble men who have set fire to, window frames, f= ences, sheds, tuning boxes etc with 136kHz RF over the years :-)) plus minor= infringments like rope guys, and waste-pipe spreaders .....I think the badg= e should be the usual symbols of earth, coil, and aerial but with a couple o= f small flames licking out of the bottom of the coil :-)) Yeah well a bit o= f artistic licence maybe :-)) > =20 > Alan > G3NYK > =20 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Laurence KL7 L > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:04 AM > Subject: Re: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 and warm ceramic feed thrus >=20 > Thanks Alan - absolutely - and I should have read the tables! >=20 > At the beginning of testing I ran the Tx at full throttle for a few hours= at 1.4Kw and measured the heating of components with an IR "laser" and saw a= few degrees in increase but little more than when I measured in okie - obvi= ously over time something odd happened! Its been running virtually constant f= or about a week... Fire in the wire!=20 >=20 > Im now going to come in thru a plated out plastic bulkhead as it ended up l= ast time and direct connect to the bus bars... >=20 > Think telephone exchange with a little more kick! >=20 > As ever its a learning curve :-) >=20 >=20 > Cheers >=20 >=20 >=20 >> On Oct 24, 2015, at 14:50, Alan Melia wrote: >>=20 >> Hi Laurence my book gives Stainless Steel as 8 times resistivity of Bras= s and 40 times that of pure copper so maybe you were pushing your luck a bi= t, though I would have thought the connections at the ends would be problem.= It looks like arcing on the pic but its obviously not..... the eramoc got s= o hot is just melted its way though the plastic and it is cooked plastic on= the outer surface. Also its not bulk resistance at these freqs you have to c= onsider skin effect in the SS. Still interesting its only one insulator. It m= ight be interesting to look at it with a milliohm meter if you have such a b= east. I would guess you must have had the equivalent of 0.2 ohm or so to get= that hot....particularly in your climate :-)) >> =20 >> Alan >> G3NYK >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: Laurence KL7 L >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 11:05 PM >> Subject: RE: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 and warm ceramic feed thrus >>=20 >> Thanks Alan - th iono really hadnt cooled off up here from the continuous= heating over the past month or so but it was getting better so I thought Id= better inject a little more heat >>=20 >> http://kl7l.com/coupler3.jpg >>=20 >> The Stainless 5/16th bolt in the feedthru must have had some imperfection= s in manufacture and got extremely hot at circa 50-60A :-) it didnt happen t= o the other bolt and wasnt at the wire connection points each side. >>=20 >> I think Ive had it with feed thrus' at this current and are going to com= e straight in thru a hole drilled in a hi density cutting board.=20 >>=20 >> I recall the original brass feed thrus getting a little warm but this mus= t have got real warm - sufficient to say the Decca kept on transmitting and d= idnt see a high SWR at all over the past week... >>=20 >> The Walmart Rubbermaid box was (is) in its 12th year and Im just going t= o plate over it... :-) >>=20 >> Laurence KL7L WE2XPQ >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >> From: alan.melia@btinternet.com >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:42:47 +0100 >> Subject: Re: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 >>=20 >> Hi Markus, yes I think that has been happening, but in Laurence's case th= e first post did not appear to any of us so that was probably bounced on the= way in, but I have seen cases were posts have been reflected but not receive= d by the sender. Some ISPs seem to regard a message sent to self as spam....= .I regularly dig out my LF postings from my webmail spam folder. Marking the= m as "Not Spam" does not seem to affect the rules in "Spamguard", the filter= used. >> =20 >> I reckon you are due for a few down days Laurence the CME from the C5 on t= he 22nd arrived at 1900z. Spaceweather maked it as arriving unexpectedly ear= ly.....I dont see that the interval was about 62 hours. We only caught the "= wash" as it was not pointing at Earth, and that could account for some of th= e longer interval. >> =20 >> Alan --Apple-Mail-8D41B47E-AF7A-4557-B124-A474EF50475F Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
I remember a graveyard maintenance shift many years ago, when my boss observed that a braid wire connection clipped onto a coil in a MF power divider was looking kind of shabby. Not being able to find a piece of flat copper, he tried length of stainless steel "Wraplock", which started out nice and shiny. After a few minutes of operation, it got very warm, and turned black. We quickly located some copper. 

John, W1TAG



On Oct 24, 2015, at 7:52 PM, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:

Well there is a cohort of noble men who have set fire to, window frames, fences, sheds, tuning boxes etc with 136kHz RF over the years :-)) plus minor infringments like rope guys, and waste-pipe spreaders .....I think the badge should be the usual symbols of earth, coil, and aerial but with a couple of small flames licking out of the bottom of the coil :-))  Yeah well a bit of artistic licence maybe :-))
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, October 25, 2015 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 and warm ceramic feed thrus

Thanks Alan - absolutely - and I should have read the tables!

 At the beginning of testing I ran the Tx at full throttle for a few hours at 1.4Kw and measured the heating of components with an IR "laser" and saw a few degrees in increase but little more than when I measured in okie - obviously over time something odd happened! Its been running virtually constant for about a week...    Fire in the wire! 

Im now going to come in thru a plated out plastic bulkhead as it ended up last time and direct connect to the bus bars...

Think telephone exchange with a little more kick!

As ever its a learning curve :-)


Cheers



On Oct 24, 2015, at 14:50, Alan Melia <alan.melia@btinternet.com> wrote:

Hi Laurence my book gives Stainless Steel as 8 times  resistivity of Brass and 40 times  that of pure copper so maybe you were pushing your luck a bit, though I would have thought the connections at the ends would be problem. It looks like arcing on the pic but its obviously not..... the eramoc got so hot is just melted its  way though the plastic and it is cooked plastic on the outer surface. Also its not bulk resistance at these freqs you have to consider skin effect in the SS. Still interesting its only one insulator. It might be interesting to look at it with a milliohm meter if you have such a beast. I would guess you must have had the equivalent of 0.2 ohm or so to get that hot....particularly in your climate :-))
 
Alan
G3NYK
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Saturday, October 24, 2015 11:05 PM
Subject: RE: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136 and warm ceramic feed thrus

Thanks Alan - th iono really hadnt cooled off up here from the continuous heating over the past month or so but it was getting better so I thought Id better inject a little more heat


The Stainless 5/16th bolt in the feedthru must have had some imperfections in manufacture and got extremely hot at circa 50-60A :-) it didnt happen to the other bolt and wasnt at the wire connection points each side.

 I think Ive had it with feed thrus' at this current and are going to come straight in thru a hole drilled in a hi density cutting board. 

I recall the original brass feed thrus getting a little warm but this must have got real warm - sufficient to say the Decca kept on transmitting and didnt see a high SWR at all over the past week...

The Walmart Rubbermaid box was (is)  in its 12th year and Im just going to plate over it... :-)

Laurence KL7L WE2XPQ



From: alan.melia@btinternet.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sat, 24 Oct 2015 22:42:47 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: XPQ WSPR15 475/136

Hi Markus, yes I think that has been happening, but in Laurence's case the first post did not appear to any of us so that was probably bounced on theway in, but I have seen cases were posts have been reflected but not received by the sender. Some ISPs seem to regard a message sent to self as spam.....I regularly dig out my LF postings from my webmail spam folder. Marking them as "Not Spam" does not seem to affect the rules in "Spamguard", the filter used.
 
I reckon you are due for a few down days Laurence the CME from the C5 on the 22nd arrived at 1900z. Spaceweather maked it as arriving unexpectedly early.....I dont see that the interval was about 62 hours. We only caught the "wash" as it was not pointing at Earth, and that could account for some of the longer interval.
 
Alan
--Apple-Mail-8D41B47E-AF7A-4557-B124-A474EF50475F--