Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1181; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t8UCoExf012818 for ; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:50:15 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZhGlq-000469-Id for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:46:06 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZhGlq-000460-3E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:46:06 +0100 Received: from s16315160.onlinehome-server.info ([87.106.80.234] helo=mail.vigilant.es) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.86) (envelope-from ) id 1ZhGkl-0008SS-0Z for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 13:46:04 +0100 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([87.216.178.132]) by vigilant.es with MailEnable ESMTP; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:44:06 +0200 Received: from servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931]) by servigilant.vigilant.local ([fe80::3cdf:95f8:c1c9:3931%13]) with mapi id 14.03.0123.003; Wed, 30 Sep 2015 14:44:29 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?VIGILANT_Luis_Fern=E1ndez?= To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 Hz Thread-Index: AQHQ+Lk2i4lCibwK40uMowYs2D64dp5R5CgAgAAjmiCAADItAIAB3VrRgACGzACAACxZ0IAAB+sAgAAuTzA= Date: Wed, 30 Sep 2015 12:44:28 +0000 Message-ID: <579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2153E8@servigilant.vigilant.local> In-Reply-To: <560BC694.8010202@posteo.de> Accept-Language: es-ES, en-US Content-Language: es-ES X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [192.168.0.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Scan-Signature: a8021042397a40331333862c25f1e78a Subject: RE: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0 Hz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2153E8servigilantvigi_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 4224 --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2153E8servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, MF I have been calculating the loop area with the help of Google Earth. Not a = regular shape but counting on the known perimeter and measures it can be estimated as 224 m2 I detect the RF current with this circuit from G4HUP but have not calibrate= d it http://g4hup.com/RFC/RF%20Current%20Meter%20Kit%20V2_0.pdf I don't use the meter and R3, VR1, VR2 and directly wire down the shack the= output from rectifier diode and use an analog voltmeter. The transformer is made in the same way with a ferrite clamp ove= r loop wire and 10 turns as secondary The 2x100R load was using 1/2w resistors and burned out when using the PA. = So changed them to 2x5W resistors On the volmeter I can get 60V dc when the antenna is tuned (minimum PA DC c= urrent). The 5W resistors still stand ! I'm using 800pF fixed caps and 490pF variable at about mid value to resonat= e the loop. Bandwith is sharp but lets me work WSPR and Opera. So lets assume 3KHz Have changed some parameters in Andy's Excel. Sized it down as a 17m diamet= er loop to match 224m2 loop area Power down to 75W which is what I get with PA under 50ohm. Conductor diamet= er 5mm, not 6mm (great difference) And it reports 1dBW ERP with 11A and 2904V Can it be that high ? Probably less due to mismatch in the feeding transfor= mer Nice ERP but in the wrong direction, I'm afraid :( 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 30 de septiembre de 2015 13:25 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0= Hz Hi Luis. What is the loop RF current and the loop area? Do you know it? Is it problematic to match the loop? You just need a C and a ferrite transf= ormer. If you have such a relatively high perimeter, you probably need abou= t 1 nF to resonate it? Currents may be in the range of 10A at 100W? A bandw= idth of maybe 3 kHz? 73, Stefan Am 30.09.2015 11:14, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Hi MF Probably not 2mW ERP Stefan ;-) Have to reconfigure my U3 but really don't know which ERP I'm getting right= now The PA outputs 60V RMS under 50Ohm load, but the loop is not an ideal load = and I can tune it to about 80V RMS. When detuned, RMS runs up to >>100V and PA gets into prob= lems I tried to get loop performance using Andy G4JNT excel and this is what I g= ot https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/7162072/Fotos%20varias/MF/70m%20MF%20Lo= op%20at%20100W%20.png Probably many things wrong there What I use is a 70m perimeter loop made from RG59 coax (braid and inner sho= rted on ends) but not a round circle The resonate cap is very close to what I need to tuneit. So the "equivalent= " round loop diameter should be 21m Go figure ! :-) One detail to mention: Yesterday, it rained. Not very usual here and still not tested the loop wit= h this Tx power and with wet terrace It seems to me that my signals was better than before. Could the wet terrac= e worked as a kind of reflector or re-shapped the radiation diagram of the horizontal loop making it more effi= cient for Dx ?? The loop is not equidistant from terrace but keeps about 3 to 4 meter high,= and just 1m on the feeding point 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 30 de septiembre de 2015 10:18 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0= Hz Hi Luis, Ooh, very well! I'm glad that i received you the first time! Is it really 2= mW ERP? Oh and BTW it was in WSPR, the super mode!!!! ;-) 73, Stefan Am 30.09.2015 00:17, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: Even with the loop we are on the way ;-) 2015-09-29 22:00 EA5DOM 0.475611 -27 0 IM= 98wn 0.002 DK7FC/P JN49ik 1398 27 73 de Luis EA5DOM ________________________________ De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de] Enviado: lunes, 28 de septiembre de 2015 21:47 Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 dB1489.0= Hz Am 28.09.2015 17:02, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez: [...] Next in the list is going vertical. Coil and variometer on the way. Keep tu= ned ;-) 73 de Luis EA5DOM Oh yes! Do it!!! :-) Looking forward to a QSO :-) 73, Stefan --_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2153E8servigilantvigi_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Stefan, MF
 
I have been calculating the loop = area with the help of Google Earth. Not a regular shape but counting on the= known perimeter
and measures it can be estimated = as 224 m2
 
I detect the RF current with this= circuit from G4HUP but have not calibrated it
I don't use the meter and R3, VR1= , VR2 and directly wire down the shack the output from rectifier diode and = use an analog
voltmeter. The transformer is mad= e in the same way with a ferrite clamp over loop wire and 10 turns as secon= dary
The 2x100R load was using 1/2w re= sistors and burned out when using the PA. So changed them to 2x5W resistors=
On the volmeter I can get 60V dc = when the antenna is tuned (minimum PA DC current). The 5W resistors still s= tand !
 
I'm using 800pF fixed caps and 49= 0pF variable at about mid value to resonate the loop. Bandwith is shar= p but lets me work
WSPR and Opera. So lets assume 3K= Hz
 
Have changed some parameters in A= ndy's Excel. Sized it down as a 17m diameter loop to match 224m2 loop area<= /font>
Power down to 75W which is what I= get with PA under 50ohm. Conductor diameter 5mm, not 6mm (great diffe= rence)
And it reports 1dBW ERP with 11A = and 2904V
 
Can it be that high ? Probably le= ss due to mismatch in the feeding transformer
 
Nice ERP but in the wrong directi= on, I'm afraid :(
&= nbsp;
73 de Luis
EA5DOM 

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 30 de septiembre de 2015 13:25
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 d= B1489.0 Hz

Hi Luis.

What is the loop RF current and the loop area? Do you know it?
Is it problematic to match the loop? You just need a C and a ferrite transf= ormer. If you have such a relatively high perimeter, you probably need abou= t 1 nF to resonate it? Currents may be in the range of 10A at 100W? A bandw= idth of maybe 3 kHz?

73, Stefan

Am 30.09.2015 11:14, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Hi MF
&= nbsp;
Probably not 2mW ERP Stefan ;-)
&= nbsp;
Have to reconfigure my U3 but rea= lly don't know which ERP I'm getting right now
The PA outputs 60V RMS under 50Oh= m load, but the loop is not an ideal load and I can tune it
to about 80V RMS. When detuned, R= MS runs up to >>100V and PA gets into problems
&= nbsp;
I tried to get loop performance u= sing Andy G4JNT excel and this is what I got
&= nbsp;
Probably many things wrong there<= /font>
What I use is a 70m perimete= r loop made from RG59 coax (braid and inner shorted on ends) but not a roun= d circle
The resonate cap is very close to= what I need to tuneit. So the "equivalent" round loop diameter s= hould be 21m 
Go figure ! :-)
 
One detail to mention:
Yesterday, it rained. Not very usual here and st= ill not tested the loop with this Tx power and with wet terrace
It seems to me that my signals was better than b= efore. Could the wet terrace worked as a kind of reflector or=
re-shapped the radiation diagram of the horizont= al loop making it more efficient for Dx ??
 
The loop is not equidistant from terrace but kee= ps about 3 to 4 meter high, and just 1m on the feeding point
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM

De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_gro= up@blacksheep.org] En nombre de DK7FC
Enviado el: mi=E9rcoles, 30 de septiembre de 2015 10:18
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 d= B1489.0 Hz

Hi Luis,

Ooh, very well! I'm glad that i received you the first time! Is it really 2= mW ERP?
Oh and BTW it was in WSPR, the super mode!!!! ;-)

73, Stefan

Am 30.09.2015 00:17, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
Even with the loop we are on the way ;-)

 2015-09-29 22:00   EA5DOM   0.475611   -27   0   IM98wn   0.002   DK7FC/P   JN49ik   1398   27 

73 de Luis
EA5DOM
De: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] en nombre de DK7FC [selberdenken@posteo.de]
Enviado: lunes, 28 de septiembre de 2015 21:47
Para: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Asunto: Re: LF: Re: 23:35 477 EA5DOM de EB3FRN Op8 Deep Search -36 d= B1489.0 Hz


Am 28.09.2015 17:02, schrieb VIGILANT Luis Fern=E1ndez:
[...]
 
Next in the list is going vertical. Coil and variometer on t= he way. Keep tuned ;-)
 
73 de Luis
EA5DOM


Oh yes! Do it!!! :-) Looking forward to a QSO :-)

73, Stefan
--_000_579355A36AEE9D4FA555C45D556003AB1B2153E8servigilantvigi_--