Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t61IqB7p014842 for ; Wed, 1 Jul 2015 20:52:12 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1ZAN46-0003hJ-Sq for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:48:58 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1ZAN46-0003hA-Cl for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:48:58 +0100 Received: from smtpout4.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.68] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1ZAN44-0005ZS-Fn for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Jul 2015 19:48:57 +0100 Received: from AGB ([95.150.80.230]) by mwinf5d54 with ME id n6ou1q00F4y94kF036oudK; Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:48:55 +0200 X-ME-Helo: AGB X-ME-Date: Wed, 01 Jul 2015 20:48:55 +0200 X-ME-IP: 95.150.80.230 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <7D577AEFBA43411C807FDDFBCF90CCC0@AGB> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 1 Jul 2015 19:48:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Scan-Signature: ebcef237b0394d499a293e835099e25a Subject: Re: LF: what causes this on wspr Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_006B_01D0B436.F63B4EE0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3596 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01D0B436.F63B4EE0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable I don't think its stability Andy , could be step response and = settling time , the new U3 kit uses a PLL and produces , what = was thought to be key click's but is PLL settling time , out of = lock detectors would normally inhibit output , but for a phase cont = system .. there's a conflict of interests , no problem keying Opera = as its a single tone , fixed frequency , but the mfsk modes have = problems associated .. the original used DSS=20 , PLL's may be the wrong way to go I think for a exciter , = where large step changes in frequency are commanded , after all = , we know why DDS's where first devised : ) =20 G, From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 6:22 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: what causes this on wspr Yep - I missed the fact it was over a minute long .=20 The sidebands are 12Hz (not 8Hz as I said before) which seems a bit = close for any synth instability. Nothing is that slow surely. So a bit of a mystery in that case. Still reckon it looks like CW = though. Hard on -off keing generates a spectrum at harmonics of the = clock frequency Andy On 1 July 2015 at 17:58, Graham wrote: Hi Andy=20 Problem there is it lasts , what seems to be the full = duration of the data phase [ phase as a change from cw to data = .. etc ] wspr via a ssb rig , overdriving usually produces , harmonic = side bands , 1000 , 2000 Hz etc Mains Hum 50/100/150 etc =20 The power distribution looks like a FM signal , that would also = account for the equal distribution about the centre and the = extended group of side bands to the right .. I would take shot at a kit using either a PLL or one = of the clock pulse systems .. with timing jitter ? 73 -G, From: Andy Talbot=20 Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: what causes this on wspr Fast CW ident perhaps ?=20 The spectral lines look to be about 8Hz apart so that makes it 10 WPM = or thereabouts Andy 'jnt On 1 July 2015 at 17:24, Graham wrote: what causes this on wspr=20 This takes some doing ...... but how to do it ? G, ------=_NextPart_000_006B_01D0B436.F63B4EE0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
I don't think  its  stability Andy  ,  = could  be=20 step  response and  settling  time ,   = the =20 new  U3 kit   uses  a  PLL and produces  , = what=20 was thought to  be  key  click's  but =20 is  PLL   settling time ,  out of = lock =20 detectors  would  normally inhibit  output , but for = a =20 phase cont  system .. there's  a  conflict of interests , = no=20 problem  keying  Opera  as  its a  single  = tone ,=20 fixed  frequency , but the  mfsk  modes  have =20 problems  associated  ..  the  original  = used  DSS=20
 
 , PLL's   may  be   the =20 wrong  way to  go I think for a  exciter , where  = large=20 step  changes  in frequency  are  commanded =  , =20 after  all  ,  we  know  why  DDS's =20 where  first  devised : ) 
 
G,

From: Andy Talbot
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 6:22 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: what causes this on wspr

Yep - I missed the fact it was over a minute long .=20
The sidebands are 12Hz (not 8Hz as I said before) which seems a bit = close=20 for any synth instability.  Nothing is that slow surely.

So a bit of a mystery in that case.    Still reckon it = looks like=20 CW though.    Hard on -off keing generates a spectrum at = harmonics of=20 the clock frequency



Andy


On 1 July 2015 at 17:58, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
Hi Andy
 
Problem there  is  it  lasts  , what =20 seems  to  be  the  full  duration  of = the =20 data  phase  [ phase as  a change  from  = cw  to=20 data .. etc ]
 
wspr  via a  ssb  rig ,  overdriving =20 usually  produces  , harmonic  side  bands = ,  =20 1000  , 2000   Hz etc  Mains  Hum =20 50/100/150  etc 
 
The  power  distribution  looks like a  FM = signal=20 ,  that  would  also  account  for the =20 equal    distribution   about  the  = centre  and the  extended  group  of  = side =20 bands  to  the  right ..
 
I would  take   shot  at  a  = kit =20 using   either  a  PLL    = or  =20 one  of the  clock  pulse  systems  .. = with =20 timing  jitter  ?
 
73 -G,

From: Andy Talbot =
Sent: Wednesday, July 01, 2015 5:33 PM
Subject: Re: LF: what causes this on = wspr

Fast CW ident perhaps ?=20
The spectral lines look to be about 8Hz apart so that makes it 10 = WPM or=20 thereabouts

Andy  'jnt


On 1 July 2015 at 17:24, Graham <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk> wrote:
what causes this  on wspr
 
This  takes  some  doing  ...... but =20 how  to  do  it  ?
 
=
G,


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