Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1170; Body=3 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t5607PLB027588 for ; Sat, 6 Jun 2015 02:07:25 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Z11au-0002ut-Sv for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2015 01:04:12 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Z11au-0002uk-DR for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2015 01:04:12 +0100 Received: from omr-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.81]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Z11aq-0005Cp-1Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Jun 2015 01:04:11 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mcc02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mcc02.mx.aol.com [172.26.253.78]) by omr-m07.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id C6CEA70035491 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2015 20:04:05 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-mcc02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id E8F0938000082 for ; Fri, 5 Jun 2015 20:04:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <08D87EDE1F7F4017B543CAAAADBCD5DC@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <20150605065350.Horde.o4qFjqxXfyEMhf_WLiaKXA5@posti.anvianet.fi> <8D26DC8FACECCFD-1FB8-40D88@webmail-vm075.sysops.aol.com> <20150605221145.Horde.oAuVAgVIccYxIxdBOnPGYA1@posti.anvianet.fi> Date: Sat, 6 Jun 2015 02:04:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1433549045; bh=wxjaaalrX1KM3F5M5G6yigbzmTJupNal3Q1llW7OJQQ=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=NZjIh5GeHANrhBXV5e23h0/+TEkvjh3FXy87H7Nf/VKE4H31tFOIzTKrTamcTwtVC P9fkGaM9JgVhNrjq8X4IELyRz/5LDuGuLTIkIDvkgXbK5bi4eH4Fpg0Dh0Ty4bRdfU hcgHEv/lYRcVdcsIr5H95DewjSlGxvt0jO+xajvY= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afd4e557238f4329a X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 75d539362fc79d60c5509fd0caf011e8 Subject: Re: LF: Gamma spectroscopy (off topic) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000B_01D09FFD.11CD16A0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3461 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D09FFD.11CD16A0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Paul-Henrik, wow, what a wealth of information and hints. That will give me plenty to = read, and I'll surely come up with more questions thereafter. Thanks a lot! 73, and have a good trip, Markus (DF6NM) From: phl@netikka.fi=20 Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 12:11 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Gamma spectroscopy (off topic) Hello Markus, and others interested. Briefly, my PC / soundcard -based gamma spectroscopy setup is as = follows: - Two self-constructed scintillation detector heads, one using a =20 Russian/USSR 18 x 40 mm NaI(Tl) crystal coupled to a 25 mm EMI 9111b =20 photomultiplier tube, and a refurbished 63 x 63 mm Russian/USSR =20 NaI(Tl) crystal coupled to a 76 mm Photonis XP5312/SN1 photomultiplier =20 tube. The smaller probe is fitted with a dynode voltage divider string =20 of approximately 60 Mohm total, and the larger one has a 120 Mohm =20 string. The pulse shaper / preamplifier is the same one as in the Theremino =20 project, but the HV generator is made from a CCFL PSU followed by a =20 three-stage cascade for a maximum voltage of 1500 V. This is followed =20 by heavy but simple RC ripple filtering. HV adjustment is by means of =20 a LM317 at the low voltage input of the CCFL-module. The signal derived from the photomultiplier anode resistor is fed =20 trough a DC-blocking capacitor into the Theremino pulse amp and from =20 there to MIC IN on either a "3D Sound" USB audio card or the built-in =20 MIC input on the PC. In the PC there are a couple of freeware applications one can use, I =20 prefer Theremino MCA and BeqMoni. Illy Sommer (Bionerd23) and Carl =20 Willis that you have probably seen on YouTube both use a different =20 free software that I have also tried, but found less handy to work =20 with especially on the energy calibration side. For Android there is an app called "Atom Spectra", and for Apple iOS =20 products one can use "Geiger Bot". I have tried both instead of a =20 normal PC with at least modest success. Very handy if one wants to =20 measure in-situ instead of hauling potential objects back home to the =20 "lab". To increase the signal to noise ratio further with the large detector =20 I will have to invest in 100 kg of lead and have it cast in a suitable =20 container to create a shielded well for the sample and the probe. Using either probe I get a total system resolution of 7 % at 662 keV = (Cs-137). To name a few things I have done with my rig is: - Determining if various glassware and ceramics were coloured using =20 natural uranium (0.7% U-235) or depleted uranium (0.2-0.3 % U-235) - Finding out if slightly radioactive rocks I have discovered in the =20 nature are radioactive due to containing thorium or uranium - Finding out that our neighbourhood probably got more Cs-137 fallout =20 in 1986 than our official averages show. Shows up in soil and ashes =20 from local trees even without lead shielding. Hard to quantify further. - Making potash from the mentioned ashes concentrates Cs-137 even =20 further. I have a bag of the stuff that I can actually use when doing =20 energy calibration of the setup. Other handy calibration tools are: Ionizing smoke detector (59 keV =20 from Am-241), Spark gap tube (662 keV from Cs-137), thoriated lantern =20 mantle (many well defined energies), radium watch or a radium doped =20 cold cathode telephone tube (many well defined energies). It is very simple to build such a setup, since the software does most =20 of the hard work. Finding good scintillation crystals and good =20 photomultipliers is perhaps the hardest part. There is plenty for sale =20 on ebay, but it is often hit and miss. I can provide some =20 recommendations off the list. Here is the Theremino documentation: Adapter: =20 http://www.theremino.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/PmtAdapters_ENG.pdf Software links etc.: = http://www.theremino.com/en/blog/gamma-spectrometry/ BeqMoni: http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dja&tl=3Den&u=3Dhttp%3A= %2F%2Fblog.livedoor.jp%2Fkabuworkman-becqmoni%2F or try the download link provided by Karl in this forum thread: http://www.gammaspectacular.com/index.php?route=3Dforum/post&path=3D277 For further reading you will have to visit Yahoo group "Gamma =20 Spectrometry". This is also a source for "good parts". I hope this off-topic provided some value. Markus, I'm happy to discuss the subject further per direct e-mail if =20 you have more questions. I will be on a trip for a couple of weeks =20 starting Sunday so replying may take a few days. BR Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ Quoting Markus Vester : > Hi Paul-Henrik, >=20 > I'd be interested to learn more about your soundcard gamma =20 > spectrometer, is there a description on the web? > > The reason why I'm asking: I recently stumbled across several rather =20 > enlightening videos from "bionerd23", the "Lady who ate the =20 > Chernobyl apples". There's also one where she climbs the huge =20 > transmit array of the former Duga-3 OTH-radar, also known as "Steel =20 > Yard" or "The Woodpecker": > = http://forums.qrz.com/showthread.php?474249-Duga-3-The-Russian-Woodpecker= -Antenna-Tour-and-Climb-Fall-2014 >=20 > 73, Markus (DF6NM) >=20 > BTW Wouldn't mind having such an decently-sized antenna in MY backyard = ;-) >=20 > >=20 > -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung----- > Von: phl <phl@netikka.fi> > An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> > Verschickt: Fr, 5 Jun 2015 8:54 am > Betreff: Re: LF: Re: USB stereo soundcard, CHEAP!? > Have a look at this specific product ("3D Sound" in transparent blue > plastic case), there are plenty sellers on the "bay" in DE: > > = http://www.ebay.de/itm/USB-Soundkarte-Sound-Card-Audio-Adapter-5-1-Konver= ter-Skype-3D-Spiel-/111583623569?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomain_77&hash=3Ditem19fa= e6f991 > > > I use exactly the same card for sound input from the NaI(Tl) > scintillator probe preamplifier in my gamma spectroscopy setup. > > At least for that purpose it works as well or better than the built-in > audio interfaces I have tried. Key parameters in that application are > low noise, no extra "hidden" sound processing and good input waveform > reproduction. > > > > BR > > Paul-Henrik, OH1LSQ ------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D09FFD.11CD16A0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Paul-Henrik,
 
wow, what a wealth of information and = hints. That=20 will give me plenty to read, and I'll surely come up with more questions = thereafter.
 
Thanks a lot!
 
73, and have a good trip,
Markus (DF6NM)

Sent: Saturday, June 06, 2015 12:11 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Gamma spectroscopy (off = topic)

Hello Markus, and others=20 interested.


Briefly, my PC / soundcard -based gamma = spectroscopy=20 setup is as follows:

- Two self-constructed scintillation = detector heads,=20 one using a 
Russian/USSR 18 x 40 mm NaI(Tl) crystal coupled to = a 25 mm=20 EMI 9111b 
photomultiplier tube, and a refurbished 63 x 63 mm=20 Russian/USSR 
NaI(Tl) crystal coupled to a 76 mm Photonis = XP5312/SN1=20 photomultiplier 
tube. The smaller probe is fitted with a = dynode=20 voltage divider string 
of approximately 60 Mohm total, and the = larger=20 one has a 120 Mohm 
string.

The pulse shaper / = preamplifier is=20 the same one as in the Theremino 
project, but the HV generator = is made=20 from a CCFL PSU followed by a 
three-stage cascade for a = maximum=20 voltage of 1500 V. This is followed 
by heavy but simple RC = ripple=20 filtering. HV adjustment is by means of 
a LM317 at the low = voltage=20 input of the CCFL-module.

The signal derived from the = photomultiplier=20 anode resistor is fed 
trough a DC-blocking capacitor into the=20 Theremino pulse amp and from 
there to MIC IN on either a "3D = Sound"=20 USB audio card or the built-in 
MIC input on the PC.

In = the PC=20 there are a couple of freeware applications one can use, I  =
prefer=20 Theremino MCA and BeqMoni. Illy Sommer (Bionerd23) and Carl  =
Willis=20 that you have probably seen on YouTube both use a different  =
free=20 software that I have also tried, but found less handy to work  =
with=20 especially on the energy calibration side.

For Android there is = an app=20 called "Atom Spectra", and for Apple iOS 
products one can use = "Geiger=20 Bot". I have tried both instead of a 
normal PC with at least = modest=20 success. Very handy if one wants to 
measure in-situ instead of = hauling=20 potential objects back home to the 
"lab".

To increase = the=20 signal to noise ratio further with the large detector 
I will = have to=20 invest in 100 kg of lead and have it cast in a suitable  =
container to=20 create a shielded well for the sample and the probe.
Using either = probe I get=20 a total system resolution of 7 % at 662 keV (Cs-137).

To name a = few=20 things I have done with my rig is:

- Determining if various = glassware and=20 ceramics were coloured using 
natural uranium (0.7% U-235) or = depleted=20 uranium (0.2-0.3 % U-235)
- Finding out if slightly radioactive rocks = I have=20 discovered in the 
nature are radioactive due to containing = thorium or=20 uranium
- Finding out that our neighbourhood probably got more Cs-137 = fallout 
in 1986 than our official averages show. Shows up in = soil and=20 ashes 
from local trees even without lead shielding. Hard to = quantify=20 further.
- Making potash from the mentioned ashes concentrates Cs-137 = even 
further. I have a bag of the stuff that I can actually = use when=20 doing 
energy calibration of the setup.

Other handy = calibration=20 tools are: Ionizing smoke detector (59 keV 
from Am-241), Spark = gap=20 tube (662 keV from Cs-137), thoriated lantern 
mantle (many = well=20 defined energies), radium watch or a radium doped 
cold cathode = telephone tube (many well defined energies).

It is very simple to = build=20 such a setup, since the software does most 
of the hard work. = Finding=20 good scintillation crystals and good 
photomultipliers is = perhaps the=20 hardest part. There is plenty for sale 
on ebay, but it is = often hit=20 and miss. I can provide some 
recommendations off the=20 list.


Here is the Theremino = documentation:

Adapter: =20
http://www.theremino.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/PmtAdapters_E= NG.pdf

Software=20 links etc.: http://www.= theremino.com/en/blog/gamma-spectrometry/


BeqMoni:

= http:= //translate.google.com/translate?hl=3Den&sl=3Dja&tl=3Den&u=3D= http%3A%2F%2Fblog.livedoor.jp%2Fkabuworkman-becqmoni%2F

or=20 try the download link provided by Karl in this forum thread:

http://www.gammaspectacular.com/index.php?route=3Dforum/post&= amp;path=3D277


For=20 further reading you will have to visit Yahoo group "Gamma =20
Spectrometry". This is also a source for "good parts".


I = hope=20 this off-topic provided some value.


Markus, I'm happy to = discuss the=20 subject further per direct e-mail if 
you have more questions. = I will=20 be on a trip for a couple of weeks 
starting Sunday so replying = may=20 take a few days.


BR

Paul-Henrik,=20 OH1LSQ






Quoting Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com>:
> Hi=20 Paul-Henrik,
>
> I'd be interested to learn more about your = soundcard gamma 
> spectrometer, is there a description on = the=20 web?
>
> The reason why I'm asking: I recently stumbled = across=20 several rather 
> enlightening videos from "bionerd23", the = "Lady=20 who ate the 
> Chernobyl apples". There's also one where she = climbs=20 the huge 
> transmit array of the former Duga-3 OTH-radar, = also=20 known as "Steel 
> Yard" or "The Woodpecker":
> http://forums.qrz.com/showthre= ad.php?474249-Duga-3-The-Russian-Woodpecker-Antenna-Tour-and-Climb-Fall-2= 014
>=20
> 73, Markus (DF6NM)
>
> BTW Wouldn't mind having = such an=20 decently-sized antenna in MY backyard ;-)
>
>
> =
>=20 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
> Von: phl=20 &lt;phl@netikka.fi&gt;
> An: rsgb_lf_group=20 &lt;rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org&gt;
> Verschickt: Fr, 5 = Jun 2015=20 8:54 am
> Betreff: Re: LF: Re: USB stereo soundcard, = CHEAP!?
> Have=20 a look at this specific product ("3D Sound" in transparent blue
> = plastic=20 case), there are plenty sellers on the "bay" in DE:
>
> http://www.ebay.de/itm/USB-Soundkarte-Sound-Card-Audi= o-Adapter-5-1-Konverter-Skype-3D-Spiel-/111583623569?pt=3DLH_DefaultDomai= n_77&hash=3Ditem19fae6f991
>
>
>=20 I use exactly the same card for sound input from the NaI(Tl)
>=20 scintillator probe preamplifier in my gamma spectroscopy = setup.
>
>=20 At least for that purpose it works as well or better than the = built-in
>=20 audio interfaces I have tried. Key parameters in that application = are
>=20 low noise, no extra "hidden" sound processing and good input = waveform
>=20 reproduction.
>
>
>
> BR
>
> = Paul-Henrik,=20 OH1LSQ



------=_NextPart_000_000B_01D09FFD.11CD16A0--