Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t51A3o65005063 for ; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 12:03:51 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YzMVv-0006mY-6i for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:00:11 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YzMVu-0006mP-OV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:00:10 +0100 Received: from rgout0305.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk ([65.20.0.211]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YzMVr-0006Kl-1j for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Jun 2015 11:00:09 +0100 X-DKIM-Result: Domain=btopenworld.com Result=Signature OK X-OWM-Source-IP: 81.153.68.195(GB) X-OWM-Env-Sender: ganymede444@btinternet.com X-CTCH-RefID: str=0001.0A090201.556C2D25.0009,ss=1,re=0.000,recu=0.000,reip=0.000,cl=1,cld=1,fgs=0 X-Junkmail-Premium-Raw: score=28/50,refid=2.7.2:2015.5.24.64817:17:28.905,ip=81.153.68.195,rules=__HAS_MSGID, __OUTLOOK_MSGID_1, __SANE_MSGID, INVALID_MSGID_NO_FQDN, __HAS_REPLYTO, __HAS_FROM, FROM_NAME_ALLCAPS, FROM_NAME_ONE_WORD, __TO_MALFORMED_2, __TO_NO_NAME, __REFERENCES, __BOUNCE_CHALLENGE_SUBJ, __BOUNCE_NDR_SUBJ_EXEMPT, __SUBJ_ALPHA_END, __MIME_VERSION, __CT, __CTYPE_MULTIPART_ALT, __CTYPE_HAS_BOUNDARY, __CTYPE_MULTIPART, __HAS_X_PRIORITY, __HAS_MSMAIL_PRI, __HAS_X_MAILER, USER_AGENT_OE, __OUTLOOK_MUA_1, __USER_AGENT_MS_GENERIC, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ADDY, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_ACC, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM, __REPLYTO_SAMEAS_FROM_DOMAIN, __ANY_URI, __FRAUD_BODY_WEBMAIL, __CP_URI_IN_BODY, __STOCK_PHRASE_7, __SUBJ_ALPHA_NEGATE, SUPERLONG_LINE, __HAS_HTML, BODYTEXTP_SIZE_3000_LESS, BODYTEXTH_SIZE_10000_LESS, __MIME_HTML, __TAG_EXISTS_HTML, __RATWARE_SIGNATURE_3, __RATWARE_SIGNATURE_3_N1, RDNS_GENERIC_POOLED, __URI_NS, SXL_IP_DYNAMIC[195.68.153.81.fur], RDNS_SUSP_GENERIC, __OUTLOOK_MUA, RDNS_SUSP, __FRAUD_WEBMAIL, REFERENCES X-CTCH-Spam: Unknown Received: from user8e280af712 (81.153.68.195) by rgout03.bt.lon5.cpcloud.co.uk (8.6.122.06) (authenticated as ganymede444) id 55606D3D01377637 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 1 Jun 2015 11:00:04 +0100 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=btopenworld.com; s=btcpcloud; t=1433152807; bh=7SlPeY+mKLDCLGXpWRjBi08+92poiQTxWRBaBFwvTPE=; h=Message-ID:Reply-To:From:To:References:Subject:Date:MIME-Version:X-Mailer; b=BTBy9McnDhUz2T78HdsrnurD+ibU/zklimHYYnkKfyFQV47aIrBbwD6VY4vVjQO/W4RunOY90VyJQALDIVGrIqvv37a9iPnYjyosKGyVskQco2so0fXCayBhM7bmhuBm7y2cXlAPaypWYlxuBXdsQVa1e7GEBHF2xbjlL+nKhkk= Message-ID: <004901d09c51$bb30dc90$4201a8c0@user8e280af712> From: "G3WCB" To: References: Date: Mon, 1 Jun 2015 11:00:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2180 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2180 X-Antivirus: avast! (VPS 150531-1, 05/31/2015), Outbound message X-Antivirus-Status: Clean X-Scan-Signature: 070d9ab39265047b7fb462cd62854f10 Subject: LF: Re: Top loaded vertical spiral antenne Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0046_01D09C5A.1C1F56F0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3393 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01D09C5A.1C1F56F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hello, Marcel. Gary, G4WGT has done some experiments with this sort of spiral top-load = antenna on 136 kHz. Take a look at his web-site, page 6. See link below. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/LF%20&%20MF%20Experiments%206.html I have done a comparison with WSPR on 630m between my "standard" wire MF = antenna and a short base-loaded vertical (not spiral wound) with a = capacity hat. The standard antenna was a 20m long (tee) configuration = with a horizontal section at 6m height and two topwires. The antenna had = a vertical centre feed wire, with a loading coil in a shed under the mid = point. The vertical section of the antenna is the only part that = radiates. This antenna had a capacity of about 220 pF The vertical antenna was a 5m fibreglass fishing rod with a capacity hat = made from six 60cm long radials (wire coathangers!), with a loading coil = inside the garage about 2m up from the bottom. I didn't measure the = capacity of this antenna but I would expect it to be about 80 -100 pF. I found that running the same RF power (15W) to the vertical produced = WSPR reports that were about 10 dB weaker than the "standard" MF "tee" = antenna. This performance could be improved by simply running 10dB more = power to the vertical antenna! I would imagine that a spiral wound = antenna would have a perfomance that would be one or two dB better than = a base-loaded vertical. I didn't do any comparison of the two antennas on receive, as I used a = separate 60cm square tuned loop for reception on 630m There's a picture of the vertical antenna and loading coil on my QRZ.com = page. http://www.qrz.com/db/g3wcb 73, Dave G3WCB IO80DI ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Marcel Bos=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 10:11 AM Subject: LF: Top loaded vertical spiral antenne Members, My backyard is in the city 8 x 8 m. My intention is to do some = experiments on 472 khz. Ready: RX converter 0-500 khz 10 mhz osc. and K3, RX ant. pa0rdt whip = and receiving loop TX: GW3UEP 100 watt, RF meter, and variometer 30 uh -600 uh Now i'm looking for a antenne. Found a article from Finnbar EI0CF and = Alan G3NYK about the spiral toploaded vertical. Has any body tryed this antenne, is the original article availble. What is the distance between the wire's of the spiral? Also talking about a double spiral? So who is gone help me out ore has some better suggetions for a = antenne in my backyard http://www.xeropage.co.uk/g3nyk/spiraltop.htm#aerials tnx in advanced=20 Marcel PA9M ------=_NextPart_000_0046_01D09C5A.1C1F56F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =EF=BB=BF
Hello, Marcel.
 
Gary, G4WGT has done some experiments = with this=20 sort of spiral top-load antenna on 136 kHz. Take a look at his web-site, = page 6.=20 See link below.
 
http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/wgtaylor/LF%20&%20MF%20Experime= nts%206.html
 
I have done a comparison with WSPR on = 630m between=20 my "standard" wire MF antenna and a short base-loaded vertical (not = spiral=20 wound) with a capacity hat. The standard antenna was a 20m long (tee)=20 configuration with a horizontal section at 6m height and two = topwires. The=20 antenna had a vertical centre feed wire, with a loading coil in a = shed=20 under the mid point. The vertical section of the antenna is the only = part that=20 radiates. This antenna had a capacity of about 220 pF
 
The vertical antenna was a 5m = fibreglass fishing=20 rod with a capacity hat made from six 60cm long radials (wire = coathangers!),=20 with a loading coil inside the garage about 2m up from the bottom. I = didn't=20 measure the capacity of this antenna but I would expect it to be about = 80 -100=20 pF.
 
I found that running the same RF power=20 (15W) to the vertical produced WSPR reports that were about 10 dB = weaker=20 than the "standard" MF "tee" antenna. This performance could be improved = by=20 simply running 10dB more power to the vertical antenna! I would imagine = that a=20 spiral wound antenna would have a perfomance that would be one or two dB = better=20 than a base-loaded vertical.
 
I didn't do any comparison of the two = antennas on=20 receive, as I used a separate 60cm square tuned loop for reception on=20 630m
 
There's a picture of the vertical = antenna and=20 loading coil on my QRZ.com page.
 
http://www.qrz.com/db/g3wcb
 
73, Dave G3WCB IO80DI
 
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Marcel Bos=20
Sent: Monday, June 01, 2015 = 10:11=20 AM
Subject: LF: Top loaded = vertical spiral=20 antenne

Members,

My backyard is in the city 8 x 8 m.  = My=20 intention is to do some experiments on 472 khz.
Ready: RX = converter=20 0-500 khz 10 mhz osc. and K3, RX ant. pa0rdt whip and receiving=20 loop

TX: GW3UEP 100 watt, RF meter, and variometer 30 uh = -600=20 uh

Now i'm looking for a antenne. Found a article from = Finnbar=20 EI0CF and Alan G3NYK about the spiral toploaded = vertical.

Has any=20 body tryed this antenne, is the original article = availble.
What is=20 the distance between the wire's  of the spiral?
Also = talking=20 about a double spiral?

So who is gone help me out  = ore has=20 some better suggetions for a antenne in my backyard

http://www= .xeropage.co.uk/g3nyk/spiraltop.htm#aerials

tnx=20 in advanced

Marcel
PA9M

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