Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1170; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE,UNPARSEABLE_RELAY autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4RAaBWR019660 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 12:36:11 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YxYdl-00070X-9U for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 May 2015 11:32:49 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YxYdk-00070O-SO for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 May 2015 11:32:48 +0100 Received: from omr-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.78]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YxYdh-0004SN-Sw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 27 May 2015 11:32:47 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com [172.26.126.208]) by omr-m04.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id B3B6E70000098 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:32:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-afa09f.mail.aol.com (core-afa09.mail.aol.com [172.27.24.9]) by mtaomg-aab02.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 831CB38000086 for ; Wed, 27 May 2015 06:32:43 -0400 (EDT) References: <55650BD1.1070207@posteo.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: <55650BD1.1070207@posteo.de> X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: AOL Webmail BASIC Received: from 192.35.17.16 by webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com (64.12.246.158) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 27 May 2015 06:32:43 -0400 Message-Id: <8D2667F9959ECA3-694-18492@webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [192.35.17.16] Date: Wed, 27 May 2015 06:32:43 -0400 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1432722763; bh=s81zBX52+pToE8o1IOxy3LtcrNwxLH/35R/mLt9DPwE=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=nbg2QDOgJK+ePvX5NP56UlnRB4MKfW1v5LNEhHiZpGiQcblXoi0f2YvG+1nf3XlwN HM4Gz5iIUBwDJLnkZQF4REsThd+hwBUDIZ0mT0G5BSZuC3opHhqIwkMJz+KseWP95E RoTuYo9ycnoCmLcnYCclEIP6j9ZlFs5srq1afLQo= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a7ed055659d4b48fe X-Scan-Signature: 40cd937fc1c5e6338b07d288cd09d087 Subject: Re: LF: Small MF ferrite antenna games Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D2667F9965D3B5_694_351EB_webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3310 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D2667F9965D3B5_694_351EB_webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Yes=20Stefan,=20bring=20colour=20into=20your=20life=20;-)=20Even=20after=20more=20= than=2010=20years,=20I=20still=20sometimes=20enjoy=20just=20sitting=20and=20watc= hing=20things=20roll=20by=20on=20the=20colour-RDF=20screen.=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A= With=20crossed=20loops=20and=20an=20E-field=20antenna=20you=20have=20a=20number=20= of=20options.=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A1.=20The=20colour-DF=20scheme=20takes=20the=20= E-field=20on=20one=20channel=20and=20a=2090=C2=B0-combination=20from=20two=20loo= ps=20on=20the=20second,=20providing=20omnidirectional=20reception=20with=20360=C2= =B0=20RDF=20functionality.=20The=20combiner=20is=20simple=20to=20make,=20and=20y= ou'll=20have=20to=20add=20a=20second=20RX=20channel.=20A=20stereo=20soundcard=20= can=20be=20used,=20and=20SpecLab=20has=20everything=20needed=20onboard.=20Having= =20a=20475=20kHz=20directional=20grabber=20available=20in=20Heidelberg=20would=20= surely=20be=20very=20useful=20to=20the=20community.=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A2.=20Then=20= you=20can=20hardware-combine=20whip=20and=20loop=20for=20a=20unidirectional=20ca= rdioid=20pattern.=20This=20is=20equivalent=20to=20K9AY=20or=20similar=20antennas= ,=20which=20on=20LF=20have=20provided=20outstanding=20results=20for=20a=20few=20= observers=20in=20quiet=20locations.=20The=20crossed=20loops=20can=20be=20used=20= with=20electronic=20steering=20or=20a=20small=20goniometer,=20which=20allow=20yo= u=20to=20virtually=20rotate=20the=20cardioid=20in=20the=20shack.=20Note=20that=20= the=20phase-based=20colour-DF=20scheme=20still=20works=20if=20the=20cardoid=20an= tenna=20instead=20of=20the=20whip=20is=20used=20as=20intensity=20source.=20I=20h= ave=20tried=20this=20on=20LF,=20but=20in=20my=20location=20SNR=20gain=20was=20no= t=20up=20to=20expectations=20because=20my=20loops=20are=20too=20much=20affected=20= by=20noise=20from=20underground=20cables.=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0A3.=20The=20next=20= step=20would=20be=20downconverting=20and=20digitizing=20all=20three=20channels=20= separately,=20allowing=20you=20to=20steer=20the=20cardioid=20by=20software=20and= =20even=20monitor=20different=20beam=20headings=20simultaneously.=20But=20a=20th= ree=20channel=20digitizer=20is=20not=C2=A0so=20easily=20available,=20and=20you'l= l=20need=20dedicated=20software=20for=20postprocessing.=20Paul=20Nicholson=20can= =20do=20this=20at=20VLF,=20using=20three=20stereo=20soundcards=20augmented=20by=20= GPS=20ticks,=20and=20a=20posteriori=20synchronisation=20in=20his=20own=20softwar= e.=20=0D=0A=C2=A0=0D=0AAll=20the=20best,=0D=0AMarkus=20(DF6NM)=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D= =0A=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20=0D=0AVon:=20DK= 7FC=20<selberdenken@posteo.de>=0D=0AAn:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_grou= p@blacksheep.org>=0D=0AVerschickt:=20Mi,=2027=20Mai=202015=202:13=20am=0D=0AB= etreff:=20LF:=20Small=20MF=20ferrite=20antenna=20games=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=0D=0A=20=0D= =0A=20=0D=0AMF,=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0AToday=20i've=20played=20a=20bit=20with=20a=20sm= all=20ferrite=20antenna=20for=20630m.=20=0D=0AIt=20is=2014=20cm=20long=20and=20h= as=208=20mm=20diameter.=20=0D=0AWithout=20any=20calculations=20i=20wound=20a=20w= inding=20of=20unknown=20number=20of=20turns=20=20=0D=0Aaround=20the=20rod=20and=20= quickly=20found=20C=20about=20200=20pF=20at=20resonance=20(475=20kHz).=20=0D=0AT= hen=20i=20added=20a=20few=20turns=20for=20a=2050=20Ohm=20output=20(measuring=20t= he=20voltage=20of=20=20=0D=0Aan=20induced=20signal=20at=20resonance.=20When=20ap= plying=2050=20Ohm,=20the=20voltage=20has=20to=20=20=0D=0Adecrease=20to=2050%)=20= to=20the=20RX.=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0Ahttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/= small%20MF%20ferrite%20antenna.jpg=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0AAs=20expected=20the=20input=20= signal=20is=20to=20low,=20it=20does=20not=20rise=20the=20noise=20of=20=20=0D=0At= he=20RX,=20so=20i'm=20missing=20about=2020=20dB.=20It=20can't=20be=20much=20more= =20though=20because=20=20=0D=0Ai=20can=20receive=20IQ2MI/B=20clearly=20in=20QRSS= -30=20on=20476.180=20kHz=20with=2025=20dB=20SNR=20=20=0D=0Ain=20122=20mHz,=20see= =20attachment.=20=0D=0AThe=20antenna=20is=20hanging=20in=206m=20AGL=20in=20a=20t= ree=20in=20my=20garden...=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0AI'm=20playing=20with=20the=20idea=20o= f=20a=20rotary=20H-field=20RX=20antenna=20for=20MF,=20maybe=20=20=0D=0Ain=20comb= ination=20with=20a=20stereo=20receiver=20and=20a=20E-field=20antenna.=20Oh=20and= =20=20=0D=0Amaybe=20with=20a=20colour=20spectrogram=20as=20known=20from=20DF6NM.= =20A=20lot=20of=20things=20to=20=20=0D=0Ado=20:-)=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A73,=20Stefan=20= =0D=0A=20=0D=0APS:=20Yesterday,=20in=20a=20CW=20QSO=20with=20DK6SX/p=20on=20the=20= loop=20he=20once=20completely=20=20=0D=0Adisappered=20into=20QSO=20which=20never= =20happend=20before=20when=20receiving=20on=20a=20=20=0D=0Aomni-directional=20an= tenna.=20So=20i=20guess=20the=20colour=20changes=20in=20such=20a=20=20=0D=0Aspec= trogram=20must=20be=20quite=20interesting=20and=20informative...=20=0D=0A=20=0D=0A= =20=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20=0A=0A ----------MB_8D2667F9965D3B5_694_351EB_webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" =0D=0AYes=20Stefan,=20bring=20colour=20into=20your=20life=20;-)=20Even=20after=20m= ore=20than=2010=20years,=20I=20still=20sometimes=20enjoy=20just=20sitting=20and=20= watching=20things=20roll=20by=20on=20the=20colour-RDF=20screen.=20=0D=0A=0D= =0A =0D=0A=0D=0AWith=20crossed=20loops=20and=20an=20E-field=20antenna=20y= ou=20have=20a=20number=20of=20options.=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A= 1.= =20The=20colour-DF=20scheme=20takes=20the=20E-field=20on=20one=20channel=20and=20= a=2090=C2=B0-combination=20from=20two=20loops=20on=20the=20second,=20providing=20= omnidirectional=20reception=20with=20360=C2=B0=20RDF=20functionality.=20The=20co= mbiner=20is=20simple=20to=20make,=20and=20you'll=20have=20to=20add=20a=20second=20= RX=20channel.=20A=20stereo=20soundcard=20can=20be=20used,=20and=20SpecLab=20has=20= everything=20needed=20onboard.=20Having=20a=20475=20kHz=20directional=20grabber=20= available=20in=20Heidelberg=20would=20surely=20be=20very=20useful=20to=20the=20c= ommunity.=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A2.=20Then=20you=20can=20hardware-= combine=20whip=20and=20loop=20for=20a=20unidirectional=20cardioid=20pattern.=20T= his=20is=20equivalent=20to=20K9AY=20or=20similar=20antennas,=20which=20on=20LF=20= have=20provided=20outstanding=20results=20for=20a=20few=20observers=20in=20quiet= =20locations.=20The=20crossed=20loops=20can=20be=20used=20with=20electronic=20st= eering=20or=20a=20small=20goniometer,=20which=20allow=20you=20to=20virtually=20r= otate=20the=20cardioid=20in=20the=20shack.=20Note=20that=20the=20phase-based=20c= olour-DF=20scheme=20still=20works=20if=20the=20cardoid=20antenna=20instead=20of=20= the=20whip=20is=20used=20as=20intensity=20source.=20I=20have=20tried=20this=20on= =20LF,=20but=20in=20my=20location=20SNR=20gain=20was=20not=20up=20to=20expectati= ons=20because=20my=20loops=20are=20too=20much=20affected=20by=20noise=20from=20u= nderground=20cables.=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0A3.=20The=20next=20s= tep=20would=20be=20downconverting=20and=20digitizing=20all=20three=20channels=20= separately,=20allowing=20you=20to=20steer=20the=20cardioid=20by=20software=20and= =20even=20monitor=20different=20beam=20headings=20simultaneously.=20But=20a=20th= ree=20channel=20digitizer=20is=20not so=20easily=20available,=20and=20you'l= l=20need=20dedicated=20software=20for=20postprocessing.=20Paul=20Nicholson=20can= =20do=20this=20at=20VLF,=20using=20three=20stereo=20soundcards=20augmented=20by=20= GPS=20ticks,=20and=20a=20posteriori=20synchronisation=20in=20his=20own=20softwar= e.=20=0D=0A=0D=0A =0D=0A=0D=0AAll=20the=20best,
=0D=0AMarkus=20(D= F6NM)
=0D=0A=0D=0A=0D=0A
=20
=0D=0A
=0D=0A=0D=0A

=0D=0A=
=0D=0A-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche=20Mitteilung-----=20
=0D=0AVon:=20DK7FC=20= <selberdenken@posteo.de>
=0D=0AAn:=20rsgb_lf_group=20<rsgb_lf_group@= blacksheep.org>
=0D=0AVerschickt:=20Mi,=2027=20Mai=202015=202:13=20am
=0D= =0ABetreff:=20LF:=20Small=20MF=20ferrite=20antenna=20games
=0D=0A
=0D=0A=20=
=0D=0A=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0AMF,=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0AToday=20i've=20played=20a=20bit=20with=20a=20s= mall=20ferrite=20antenna=20for=20630m.=20
=0D=0AIt=20is=2014=20cm=20long=20an= d=20has=208=20mm=20diameter.=20
=0D=0AWithout=20any=20calculations=20i=20woun= d=20a=20winding=20of=20unknown=20number=20of=20turns=20=20
=0D=0Aaround=20the= =20rod=20and=20quickly=20found=20C=20about=20200=20pF=20at=20resonance=20(475=20= kHz).=20
=0D=0AThen=20i=20added=20a=20few=20turns=20for=20a=2050=20Ohm=20outp= ut=20(measuring=20the=20voltage=20of=20=20
=0D=0Aan=20induced=20signal=20at=20= resonance.=20When=20applying=2050=20Ohm,=20the=20voltage=20has=20to=20=20
=0D= =0Adecrease=20to=2050%)=20to=20the=20RX.=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0Ahttps://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/small%20M= F%20ferrite%20antenna.jpg=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0AAs=20expected=20the=20inp= ut=20signal=20is=20to=20low,=20it=20does=20not=20rise=20the=20noise=20of=20=20=0D=0Athe=20RX,=20so=20i'm=20missing=20about=2020=20dB.=20It=20can't=20be=20mu= ch=20more=20though=20because=20=20
=0D=0Ai=20can=20receive=20IQ2MI/B=20clearl= y=20in=20QRSS-30=20on=20476.180=20kHz=20with=2025=20dB=20SNR=20=20
=0D=0Ain=20= 122=20mHz,=20see=20attachment.=20
=0D=0AThe=20antenna=20is=20hanging=20in=206= m=20AGL=20in=20a=20tree=20in=20my=20garden...=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0AI'm=20pla= ying=20with=20the=20idea=20of=20a=20rotary=20H-field=20RX=20antenna=20for=20MF,=20= maybe=20=20
=0D=0Ain=20combination=20with=20a=20stereo=20receiver=20and=20a=20= E-field=20antenna.=20Oh=20and=20=20
=0D=0Amaybe=20with=20a=20colour=20spectro= gram=20as=20known=20from=20DF6NM.=20A=20lot=20of=20things=20to=20=20
=0D=0Ado= =20:-)=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A73,=20Stefan=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0APS:=20Yest= erday,=20in=20a=20CW=20QSO=20with=20DK6SX/p=20on=20the=20loop=20he=20once=20comp= letely=20=20
=0D=0Adisappered=20into=20QSO=20which=20never=20happend=20before= =20when=20receiving=20on=20a=20=20
=0D=0Aomni-directional=20antenna.=20So=20i= =20guess=20the=20colour=20changes=20in=20such=20a=20=20
=0D=0Aspectrogram=20m= ust=20be=20quite=20interesting=20and=20informative...=20
=0D=0A=20
=0D=0A<= /tt>=20
=0D=0A=0D=0A=20=20
=0D=0A ----------MB_8D2667F9965D3B5_694_351EB_webmail-vm121.sysops.aol.com--