Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4MHxP4X005023 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 19:59:26 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Yvr80-0007IY-Lh for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 May 2015 18:53:00 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Yvr80-0007IP-95 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 May 2015 18:53:00 +0100 Received: from omr-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.75]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1Yvr7y-0005FP-Bm for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 22 May 2015 18:52:59 +0100 Received: from mtaout-aai01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aai01.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.97]) by omr-m01.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id B9A4170545D8B for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 13:52:52 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-aai01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id EB18C38000093 for ; Fri, 22 May 2015 13:52:49 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <69406B0D81604EB7AF9E593F01405D30@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <56E9954CB7BF44C988D4CE07C37035B9@AGB> Date: Fri, 22 May 2015 19:52:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1432317172; bh=FKRce8V6Q/YXWXnbHUk8s+0gPQOXqzTbv7lkzlwn35M=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ZGr+HBcRYFw1uB+h/Fw7rZmiiJZlWiFKf4dgqxfdNu64KjX3NIR8OBfRM868Bob6y BGA9AsYyVhnTZKVDCG53V2Ii+3AIfw192CYfKYaAFfuszf8hn2ZMDEpbmprSEKw/7B kobqGBoMRLRmPapt9QcR+gyTK4LEFEehaS+uu6ZI= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b0261555f6cf16c2e X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 4e28719a46cd3d69582e1b8d1c614db3 Subject: Re: LF: 477 VK5CV de VK2XGJ Op8 690 mi -17 dB F:8% in Dapto, Austealia with 25w Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0006_01D094C8.E13FF6E0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3214 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D094C8.E13FF6E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Graham, > ... note Phil is also running RX and may provide shortly a = secondary , off-air decode to provide a time stamp. maybe this is not such a good idea. When the timestamp from a local = decode is propagated over the Opera web link, all other active decoders = immediately get this info. A sceptic (are we?) could suspect that this = might be used by the detectors to correlate their last-received noise = against the known message and timeframe, using an arbitrarily low = detection threshold - a la "You've heard it too, haven't you? You surely = have...". This could make false positives very likely, but no one can = tell them from a real one. The Opera program then has four minutes (one = on MF) to output such a hit as a delayed dynamic deep search decode. = afterwards, the matching timestamps would be used to falsely "verify" a = false detection, which had really been provoked by exactly that = timestamp. In my opinion, it would enhance credibility to not propagate local = decodes, but let the transmitter only keep a "secret" log of their = emissions. This could then be used in an a posteriori comparison against = correlation results, which have been created independently without a = priori knowledge of transmit times.=20 All the best, Markus From: Graham=20 Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 3:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: 477 VK5CV de VK2XGJ Op8 690 mi -17 dB F:8% in Dapto, = Austealia with 25w=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0006_01D094C8.E13FF6E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Graham,
 
> ... note  Phil is also  running  RX  and = may =20 provide  shortly  a secondary , off-air  decode = to  provide a  time  stamp.
 
maybe this is not = such a good=20 idea. When the timestamp from a local decode is propagated over the = Opera web=20 link, all other active decoders immediately get this info. A = sceptic (are=20 we?) could suspect that this might be used by the = detectors to=20 correlate their last-received noise against the known message and=20 timeframe, using an arbitrarily low detection threshold - a la = "You've=20 heard it too, haven't you? You surely have...". This could make false = positives=20 very likely, but no one can tell them from a real one. The = Opera=20 program then has four minutes (one on MF) to = output such a=20 hit as a delayed dynamic deep search decode. afterwards, the = matching=20 timestamps would be used to falsely "verify" a false detection,=20 which had really been provoked by exactly=20 that timestamp.
 
In my opinion, it = would enhance=20 credibility to not propagate local decodes, but let the = transmitter=20 only keep a "secret" log of their emissions. This could then be = used in an=20 a posteriori comparison against correlation = results, which=20 have been created independently without a priori knowledge of = transmit=20 times. 
 
All the = best,
Markus
 

From: Graham
Sent: Friday, May 22, 2015 3:19 PM
Subject: LF: 477 VK5CV de VK2XGJ Op8 690 mi -17 dB F:8% in = Dapto,=20 Austealia with 25w

 
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