Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=3 Fuz1=3 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.4 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t4UMcU8p032596 for ; Sun, 31 May 2015 00:38:30 +0200 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YypMW-0000xS-5q for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:36:16 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YypMV-0000xJ-Nt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:36:15 +0100 Received: from omr-m1.mx.aol.com ([64.12.224.134]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YypMT-00027L-6Q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 30 May 2015 23:36:14 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com [172.26.254.109]) by omr-m1.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 783BE380000B3 for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 18:36:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-mbb01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 8A5A43800009B for ; Sat, 30 May 2015 18:36:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <42B082B94058476DA1B49C80A0AA4DB9@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <5568E23F.5070907@posteo.de> <98550314F4E343FF8ACABAF3E7D5FC8B@MichaelSappPC> <6631D15870CA4874B8A428964C437E00@White> <1CE4CCC3376A4525A8C6F7ED165F3934@MichaelSappPC> Date: Sun, 31 May 2015 00:36:06 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1433025371; bh=w/t9+xDEevkBBsmmV5mg1sGa/OMVvQZAiaHK8p4unAk=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VRQ5/rxK1Kd/85hENh+E93V+K1p7KYaEVY+9pCM3NmlzScPY7l5wdv7jCWs+7wwqx VsnSswEA62F9XuurSgUFrArykpjcWz+f3pFL+maM96CstGNypiZzQvn4Mm0SgDvaQP XO8KWWCD1r6E5R6Xgayj8/kDmN5kMxCuVZ7Jy5Bc= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1afe6d556a3b580f0b X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 1a92164900c4e119399f770c0cc93934 Subject: Re: re:Re: LF: Almost Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0004_01D09B39.C80D2450" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3368 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D09B39.C80D2450 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Mike,=20 you won't need separate receivers and PCs just for observing WSPR at = both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and based on the same dial = frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is run WSPR-X twice on the = same PC and same soundcard, and manually select different speed settings = in the two instances. It has been said that it may be to have two WSPR-X = installations in separate folders, but at least for me just starting the = same program twice seems to do the job nicely. 73, Markus From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: re:Re: LF: Almost Hello Markus: Ah, similar noise gremlins all over the globe.... During = spring cleaning of all the EWE connections last week, I added a = perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods of the two EWE = antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 matching xfmr = each end of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to reduce the power = line harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a few weeks = of listening to evaluate.... I can split my LF converter IF output and run two receivers and PCs. But = the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are not identical which makes = comparative tests rather subjective. I have tried that twice in the = past week but no joy on 630m wspr2 & 15. May give that a try again this = evening if no "Blizten-storms"... 73, Mike wa3tts=20 ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 5:56 PM Subject: Re: LF: Almost Hi Mike, thanks for the explanations, nice work indeed!=20 I am are also plagued by a lot of local interference from our dense = suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF there seems to be a surprising = diversity of signatures: there's the plain common SMPS hash, usually 100 = Hz FM-modulated across several kHz. At times I get what looks like just = plain white noise, with variable power density. But then there are also = apparently crystal controlled carriers going on and off, often with = sidebands which sometimes mimick intelligent modulation. Are you currently monitoring WSPR-2 only, or also -15? All the best, Markus (DF6NM) From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Almost Markus: I do not think the QRM signals are spurious. I have built the = W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz range and the offending signals are = still present when the preselector is used. Same with the FZ-02 filter. = There are some commercial and retail shops to my NE about 300~400 = meters away, possible that is the source. However, the offending QRM = signals are not consistent in frequency or strength from one day to the = next. QRM signals are not very strong, but strong enough to interfere = with a -27 to -30 SNR desired signal. =20 I use a pair of crossed EWE antennas to have four-way selectable = cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW directional reception. If I = switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, but then = directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down. To the SW and SE = directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources appear. I = may try some phase steering between the two EWE antennas. It is an = ongoing learning process. Random chance could always prevail, so I = continue to listen, tinker, and occasionally even learn something ~:). = 73,=20 Mike wa3tts PS: I have received several F5WK wspr2 captures on 630m this last = December.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/wkfcl9gfyac5nlm/F5WKMAP.JPG?dl=3D0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/fzox0bk492h20dq/IMG_4142.JPG?dl=3D0 ----- Original Message ----- a From: Markus Vester=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 6:20 AM Subject: Re: LF: Almost Looks like Stefan ran into a Loran line... but wait, Loran is no = longer there in North America, and anyway we're on MF not LF. Mike any = idea what is causing those spurs? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG = (direct link) 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Michael Sapp=20 Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Almost Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... local QRM..... https://www.dropbox.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG?dl=3D0 73 Mike wa3tts ------=_NextPart_000_0004_01D09B39.C80D2450 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Mike,
 
you won't need separate receivers and = PCs just for=20 observing WSPR at both speeds. Frequency bands are adjacent and based=20 on the same dial frequency (475.2 kHz USB). All you need to do is = run=20 WSPR-X twice on the same PC and same soundcard, and manually select = different speed settings in the two instances. It has been said that it = may be=20 to have two WSPR-X installations in separate folders, but at least for = me just=20 starting the same program twice seems to do the job=20 nicely.
 
73, Markus
 
Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2015 12:21 AM
Subject: re:Re: LF: Almost

Hello Markus:  Ah, similar noise = gremlins all=20 over the globe.... During spring cleaning of all the EWE connections = last week,=20 I added a perimeter ground wire around the four ground rods of the = two EWE=20 antennas (Think of a square area with an X inside, 10:1 matching xfmr = each end=20 of each EWE). The extra grounding appeared to reduce the power = line=20 harmonic situation in the 10~20 kHz range. It will take a few weeks of = listening=20 to evaluate....
 
I can split my LF converter IF output = and run two=20 receivers and PCs. But the IF radios, PCs, and sound cards are not=20 identical which makes comparative = tests rather subjective. =20  I have tried that twice in the past week but no joy on 630m wspr2 = &=20 15.  May give that a try again this evening if no=20 "Blizten-storms"...
 
73, Mike wa3tts 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 = 5:56=20 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Hi Mike,
 
thanks for the = explanations, nice work=20 indeed!
 
I am are also plagued by a lot = of local=20 interference from our dense suburban neighbourhood. especially on MF = there=20 seems to be a surprising diversity of signatures: there's = the plain=20 common SMPS hash, usually 100 Hz = FM-modulated across several=20 kHz. At times I get what looks like just plain white = noise,=20 with variable power density. But then there are = also apparently=20 crystal controlled carriers going on and off, often with = sidebands which=20 sometimes mimick intelligent modulation.
 
Are you currently = monitoring=20 WSPR-2 only, or also -15?
 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 8:33 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Markus:  I do not think the QRM = signals are=20 spurious. I have built the W1VD preselector for 475~500 kHz range and = the=20 offending signals are still present when the preselector is = used.  Same=20 with the FZ-02 filter.  There are some commercial and retail = shops to my=20 NE about 300~400 meters away, possible that is the source.  = However, the=20 offending QRM signals are not consistent in frequency or strength from = one day=20 to the next.  QRM signals are not very strong, but strong enough = to=20 interfere with a -27 to -30 SNR desired signal.   =
 
  I use a pair of crossed EWE = antennas to=20 have four-way selectable cardio patterns for NE, SW, SE, and NW = directional=20 reception. If I switch to the NW direction, the QRM signals go away, = but then=20 directivity to DK7FC would be about 4~5dB down.  To the SW and SE = directions some QRM sources disappear, and other QRM sources = appear.  I=20 may try some phase steering between the two EWE antennas. It is = an=20 ongoing learning process. Random chance could always prevail, so I = continue to=20 listen, tinker, and occasionally even learn something ~:). 73, =
 
Mike wa3tts
 
PS: I have received several =  F5WK wspr2=20 captures on 630m this last December....
 
htt= ps://www.dropbox.com/s/wkfcl9gfyac5nlm/F5WKMAP.JPG?dl=3D0
ht= tps://www.dropbox.com/s/fzox0bk492h20dq/IMG_4142.JPG?dl=3D0
----- Original Message ----- a
From:=20 Markus=20 Vester
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 = 6:20=20 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Almost

Looks like Stefan ran = into a Loran=20 line... but wait, Loran is no longer there in North America, = and anyway=20 we're on MF not LF. Mike any idea what is causing those = spurs?
 
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG&nbs= p;(direct=20 link)
 
73, Markus (DF6NM)

From: Michael Sapp
Sent: Saturday, May 30, 2015 4:41 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: Almost

Stefan: Close, but no cigar..... = local=20 QRM.....
 
ht= tps://www.dropbox.com/s/hferguh5tdeaccw/IMG_4352.JPG?dl=3D0
 
73 Mike wa3tts
 
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