Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1290; Body=3 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=3 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.2 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t2D9TOte000352 for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 10:29:24 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YWLoh-0000Tq-Ta for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:23:39 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YWLoh-0000Th-EQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:23:39 +0000 Received: from rhcavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.130] helo=cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YWLoe-0007LD-Qx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:23:38 +0000 X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-ID: EC6841282FD.A488A X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Received: from icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (icts-p-smtps-1e.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.33]) by cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id EC6841282FD for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 10:23:31 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB3.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub3.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.17]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EA423409F for ; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 10:23:28 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::edaf:341f:90e:f70e]) by ICTS-S-HUB3.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::a470:76b3:406d:2b1a%27]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Fri, 13 Mar 2015 10:23:28 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: Activity etc. - DG3LV discussion -One year later Thread-Index: AQHQXRow4yrny+fgTkGcgc1cBGB2150aFO3n Date: Fri, 13 Mar 2015 09:23:28 +0000 Message-ID: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234EA8DC@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> References: <53179301.8080002@broadpark.no> <53187B41.3020201@gmx.net> <53188931.8020805@iup.uni-heidelberg.de>,<55021CD4.2040805@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <55021CD4.2040805@gmail.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.13.12] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 134.58.240.130 (rhcavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be) used invalid HELO/EHLO cavuit02.kulnet.kuleuven.be - verification failed X-Scan-Signature: 58067cca381a9a29d283a47426ceb5b1 Subject: RE: LF: Activity etc. - DG3LV discussion -One year later Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234EA8DCICTSSMBX1lunaku_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2638 --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234EA8DCICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, Tobias, all, so far I made 130 QSO's on 472kHz: CW: 88 (68%) JT9: 35 (27%) QRS: 4 (3%) WSQ: 3 (2%) But is the average distance for CW os "only" 477km while it is 1180km for t= he other modes. Conclusion: CW is the most popular mode but other modes are better suited f= or DX? 73, Rik ON7YD - OR7T ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 13 maart 2015 0:10 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Activity etc. - DG3LV discussion -One year later Hello Tobias, LF, Recently my smartphone reminded me on an entry i made last year. We discuss= ed about the new WSQ mode and if it will be established as a permanent used= QSO data mode. It was also the discussion if it/there will be a real alter= native to CW. I said i'll come back to you in a year to see what happened. = Now this time is over. So, what do we see? Today is a quiet normal day, no special condx, no speci= al day (weekend or so), no special stations on the band (actually we are al= l special :-) ) or activity announced but there was a LOT of CW activity! (= LOT is relative of course :-) ) See the attached image from my MF grabber g= iving an overview of the MF CW range this evening (first half of the evenin= g). Now, take a look at http://www.dxsummit.fi/#/?include=3D472kHz What do you = see? What is the preferred mode? I think the situation is clear now. Actually it has been clear a year ago a= s well ;-) 73, Stefan Am 06.03.2014 15:41, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer: Am 06.03.2014 14:42, schrieb Tobias DG3LV: The lack of QSO-activity of any mode is a social "problem" in my view. Agreed. And that's why contests are so popular on the HF bands. Actually ma= ny people don't know what to talk except "599 tu". Same in SSB of course. T= hat is the actual problem. And as long as this problem exists, every QSO mo= de has to die after some time. Honestly, since the last few years there hav= e been several new (and of course better and better and really better (like= washing agent :-) )) QSO modes or non QSO modes. They come and go. They ar= e interesting for some time until they become boring. Then the next one has= to come. And the intervall becomes shorter and shorter. But somehow, there is that mode: CW. Take a look at http://www.dxsummit.fi/= CustomFilter.aspx?customCount=3D50&customRange=3D472 and you will see that= there is permanent CW activity, all around the year. Do you remember, it i= s more than 10 years ago that a CW exam was not part of the HF licence in G= ermany. And many of the class2 amateurs (VHF/UHF licences) gibed "Hahaha, n= ow CW will die out soon". But somehow it does not, even without a new softw= are update :-) And that is the difference: In digimodes you press e.g. F3 to start your ca= ll. In CW you do it by the "language" itselfe, which is fun for itselfe! Th= us, calling CQ for hours is possible without becoming boring, just because = it is music what you're listeng to! A non-CW man never understood what that= means to talk with your fingers. You can sit at home, alone, and play your= guitar and be happy, without someone responding or applouding :-) As the number of joining hams in a mode usually is limited, there are alway= s "the same suspects" who can talk to each other or even can hear each othe= r. Which is not the problem. You usually have only even one XYL, evening by ev= ening. Often you can hear her but sometimes you can't understand her :-) Al= ways the same suspect. After some time its getting boring and unpolite to have a QSO several times= a day without any "news" to tell. Same with some XYLs after some years? :-) So the number of QSOs is decreasing by the time, and people start to run en= dless CQ-loops to gain a QSO by force. Some are not answering another ham c= alling CQ but starting a CQ of their own instead. The subbands fill up with= "beacons" by that. ...but there are several OMs who are happy to receive a signal to copy! I'v= e got several SWL reports, even by mail (not e-mail), of OMs who are obviou= sly fascinated by these "beacons" and ask for a QSL. EA3LA, that's a good e= xample. He took a video and uploaded it to youtube. So obviously he must be= fascinated, NOT bored by that "beacon"! BTW if my power would be 20 dB dow= n, he would hear NIL and maybe says "the band is dead" and tell it to his f= riends in the local club. And, calling CQ is not a beacon at all, as long as someone is listening bet= ween the calls and is ready to answer an audible signal. There has to be a critical mass of people to keep a mode running. Oh yes, same for CW, as we can see on LF :-( People have to know about any new mode, so a high level of publicity is man= datory to acheive that critical mass. But in digimodes, where the above described effect (fascination of listenin= g to CW) is not present, that critical mass can never be hold! Because, as = you say, it's all the time the same if you don't know what to tell. So, aft= er a few QSOs, newcomers tend to become bored. It will take a time to establish a new mode for everyday use. There is a go= od chance that WSQ will become an effective keyboard to keyboard mode that = is used frequently. Just a fortnight ago we first heard about it by you, it= s definitely too early to dismiss it. Then let us wait another year and have a conclusion then :-) Maybe i am wro= ng, which would be good :-) 73, Stefan/DK7FC --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234EA8DCICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stefan, Tobias, all,

 

so far I made 130 QSO's on 472kHz:

CW: 88 (68%)

JT9: 35 (27%)

QRS: 4 (3%)

WSQ: 3 (2%)

 

But is the average distance for CW os "only" 477km while it is= 1180km for the other modes.

 

Conclusion: CW is the most popular mode but other modes are better = suited for DX?

 

73, Rik  ON7YD - OR7T

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] Verzonden: vrijdag 13 maart 2015 0:10
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Activity etc. - DG3LV discussion -One year later<= br>
Hello Tobias, LF,

Recently my smartphone reminded me on an entry i made last year. We discuss= ed about the new WSQ mode and if it will be established as a permanent used QSO data mode. It was also the discussion if it/there= will be a real alternative to CW. I said i'll come back to you in a year to see what happened. Now= this time is over.
So, what do we see? Today is a quiet normal day, no special condx, no speci= al day (weekend or so), no special stations on the band (actually we are al= l special :-) ) or activity announced but there was a LOT of CW activity! (LOT is relative of course :-) ) See the attache= d image from my MF grabber giving an overview of the MF CW range this eveni= ng (first half of the evening).

Now, take a look at http://www.dxsummit.fi/#/?include=3D472kHz What do you see? What is the= preferred mode?

I think the situation is clear now. Actually it has been clear a year ago a= s well ;-)

73, Stefan


Am 06.03.2014 15:41, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:

Am 06.03.2014 14:42, schrieb Tobias DG3LV:
The lack of QSO-activity of any mode is a social = "problem" in my view.
Agreed. And that's why contests are so popular on the HF bands. Actually ma= ny people don't know what to talk except "599 tu". Same in SSB of= course. That is the actual problem. And as long as this problem exists, ev= ery QSO mode has to die after some time. Honestly, since the last few years there have been several new (and of course better= and better and really better (like washing agent :-) )) QSO modes or non Q= SO modes. They come and go. They are interesting for some time until they b= ecome boring. Then the next one has to come. And the intervall becomes shorter and shorter.

But somehow, there is that mode: CW. Take a look at http://www.dxsummit.fi/CustomFilter.aspx?customCount=3D50&customRange= =3D472  and you will see that there is permanent CW activity, all = around the year. Do you remember, it is more than 10 years ago that a CW ex= am was not part of the HF licence in Germany. And many of the class2 amateurs (VHF/UHF licences) gibed "Hahaha, now CW = will die out soon". But somehow it does not, even without a new softwa= re update :-)

And that is the difference: In digimodes you press e.g. F3 to start your ca= ll. In CW you do it by the "language" itselfe, which is fun for i= tselfe! Thus, calling CQ for hours is possible without becoming boring, jus= t because it is music what you're listeng to! A non-CW man never understood what that means to talk with your finger= s. You can sit at home, alone, and play your guitar and be happy, without s= omeone responding or applouding :-)


As the number of joining hams in a mode usually i= s limited, there are always "the same suspects" who can talk to e= ach other or even can hear each other.
Which is not the problem. You usually have only even one XYL, evening by ev= ening. Often you can hear her but sometimes you can't understand her :-) Al= ways the same suspect.

After some time its getting boring and unpolite t= o have a QSO several times a day without any "news" to tell.
Same with some XYLs after some years? :-)

So the number of QSOs is decreasing by the time, = and people start to run endless CQ-loops to gain a QSO by force. Some are n= ot answering another ham calling CQ but starting a CQ of their own instead.= The subbands fill up with "beacons" by that.
...but there are several OMs who are happy to receive a signal to copy! I'v= e got several SWL reports, even by mail (not e-mail), of OMs who are obviou= sly fascinated by these "beacons" and ask for a QSL. EA3LA, that'= s a good example. He took a video and uploaded it to youtube. So obviously he must be fascinated, NOT bored by that "= ;beacon"! BTW if my power would be 20 dB down, he would hear NIL and m= aybe says "the band is dead" and tell it to his friends in the lo= cal club.
And, calling CQ is not a beacon at all, as long as someone is listening bet= ween the calls and is ready to answer an audible signal.

There has to be a critical mass of people to keep= a mode running.
Oh yes, same for CW, as we can see on LF :-(

People have to know about any new mode, so a high= level of publicity is mandatory to acheive that critical mass.
But in digimodes, where the above described effect (fascination of listenin= g to CW) is not present, that critical mass can never be hold! Because, as = you say, it's all the time the same if you don't know what to tell. So, aft= er a few QSOs, newcomers tend to become bored.

It will take a time to establish a new mode for e= veryday use. There is a good chance that WSQ will become an effective keybo= ard to keyboard mode that is used frequently. Just a fortnight ago we first= heard about it by you, its definitely too early to dismiss it.
Then let us wait another year and have a conclusion then :-) Maybe i am wro= ng, which would be good :-)

73, Stefan/DK7FC

--_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A234EA8DCICTSSMBX1lunaku_--