Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t2OKFAhA012941 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 21:15:10 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YaVAH-0003op-5k for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:11:05 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YaVAG-0003og-Ap for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:11:04 +0000 Received: from omr-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.143.82]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YaVAC-0003kx-Pt for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 20:11:03 +0000 Received: from mtaout-aac02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-aac02.mx.aol.com [172.27.2.34]) by omr-m09.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id CD7E370501FB0 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:10:58 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (ipb21bee4a.dynamic.kabel-deutschland.de [178.27.238.74]) by mtaout-aac02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id D096538000082 for ; Tue, 24 Mar 2015 16:10:55 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <6FAD36F9BE5B441AB750A5E4FB0316D4@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: , <9E42E0C1388140BEB386A7B2C56EA559@gnat> Date: Tue, 24 Mar 2015 21:10:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20140625; t=1427227858; bh=mD6bZdUwA1B2kk3K/D2xm7B8jct2qmO5A1WXeWYEBUc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=1hm0QMU/xBOirLoNFw7NysWU8QhbtjJCgfxjd6IHFwl+lcatcqht1t9M5/I6Z5xfN lqDRYI9BnVF56wkNyHYcC1u1GcCFBgbf++QKemfnbmPQJmUGbQLM8gnyLKRaulFG9P GJNeMGX8hXEzhJ6b48L/gE1DaBQ2Je/TpC/d6UcA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1b02225511c4cf654e X-AOL-IP: 178.27.238.74 X-Scan-Signature: 4bc3491b614f043141ec87e58a12dcbf Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Poor conditions - the return of skywave Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0008_01D06677.058DB9E0" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2784 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D06677.058DB9E0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Laurence, interesting! Like Alan, I've wondered whether your N-S polar = communication could have been through a field-aligned magnetospheric = duct (referenced eg. by http://www.researchgate.net/publication/257362707_The_magnetospheric_echo= _box_--_A_type_of_long-delayed_echo_explained or = http://folk.uio.no/sverre/papers/2009_MagnetoDucting-QST-LA3ZA.pdf, or = in an article by Peter Martinez in Radcom Oct 2007). Wonder if you = happened to find an unsusual delay - it could be more than half a = second, so maybe just noticable in a voice circuit. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Alan Melia=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 6:16 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: Re: Poor conditions - the return of skywave Hi Laurence you dont say what frequency the pole to pole path was? I = wonder whether it might have been a sort of duct (trough its sometimes = called) above the D-layer. The auroral hole might even help the signals = into it :-)) Top band is supposed to exhibit that mode sometimes. = Otherwise maybe a similar mode to whistler transmission, though your = frequency might be too high for that.....the duct seems favourite. The inside the auroral ring events suggest the precipitation is occuring = at the latitude of the aurora, and this spreads out as it diffuses = south. Hence its not quite so bad in Vancouver. I reckon your problem is = launching that first hop through that.=20 It is not over yet, the Dst has started to dip again (Kyoto has gone up) = I think this is the precursor to another coronal hole flow predicted for = the 25th. I doesnt look too bad on the animation but it will add some = electrons to the ring current and drag out the recovery a bit. Alan G3NYK ----- Original Message -----=20 From: Laurence KL7 L=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 3:30 PM Subject: LF: Re: Poor conditions - the return of skywave Thanks Alan - it certainly was a kicker up here -=20 =20 Last night I had my first decode on 475kHz from WH2XGP since 17th from = the "vanished" band - so this shows a slight improvement - very slight.=20 =20 Its amazing to me that such relatively small changes in latitude have = close to a logarithmic effect in losses. Its a different world here at = 61N to my friends in Seattle just a 3 hour flight South, but again, and = specific to this location - these local and not so local ragged = mountain ranges are breaking up skywave reflections too to my detriment, = probably for signal coming in below 10 degrees here - and that's not = helping at all either. I actually think this lat/geolat is actually = worse than than up near the Geo Pole -=20 =20 Base on our Fiennes expedition comms work Im still of an opinion that = LF/MF comms between stations inside the disturbed Auroral oval are = typically actually way way better than on the South side of it or in it = during a Mag/proton event - and often we sat there pondering - and = came to the conclusion it was like being in a one way semi conductor = mirror or gold fish bowl with a very low noise level able to hear the = world but the world not hearing us across the Oval . During the March = 13th 1989 event another North Pole expedition hadn't been able to = contact their Spitzbergen base and we were asked to look out for them at = Ward Hunt on 2182kHz as part of the SAR - so I put out a few calls and = there they were at S7 - them using 5W to a small wire and good earth - = signals were so stable with nearly no fade at some 1400Kms in a twilight = period and all within this goldfish bowl - I actually had to tell them = to reduce power as their batteries were so dead they were FMing..=20 =20 The other oddity was the excellent North Pole to South Pole HF comms = during the latter half of that event - we couldnt talk to Resolute or = Eureka down the road, but could swap Met and Sitreps to South Georgia = and Rothera bases at huge signals on what appeared chordal hop - what an = oddity that was - once the iono recovered a bit we lost this path.... =20 thanks for the input - roll out the "quiet sun" please. =20 Laurence KL7L=20 =20 =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ----- From: alan.melia@btinternet.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:42:00 +0000 Subject: LF: Re: Poor conditions Hi Laurence and Roelof, Yes that was a big one on the 17th. I dont = remember the Dst being depressed to -230nT for some quite long time. My = thumbnail estimate says that it could take at least 14 days and possibly = up to 21 days to really get back to to good conditions again. The = succession of shocks really loaded up the ring current, and although the = Dst has risen to -35nT its rate of increase has flattened out. Because the CME "snow-ploughed" it way though a coronal hole high = speed stream the event produced a large multiple proton event which has = died away now, but the PCA effects tend to linger. We are still gettting = shocks (Kp 6 yesterday and Kp=3D5 today) which may be "sub-storms". = These occur when ions and electrons trapped in the mageto-tail are "spat = back" towards Earth (another glob of plasma is spat in the opposite = direction to conserve momentum) The mechanism is much like he release of = energy from the strained Solar magnetic field that produced the CME. The = trapped hot electrons "wind up" the field in the magneto-tail until it = "snaps" into a lower energy state. The lost energy is carried by the = ejected particles. Alan G3NYK ------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D06677.058DB9E0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Laurence,
 
interesting! Like Alan, = I've wondered=20 whether your N-S polar communication could have been through a = field-aligned=20 magnetospheric duct (referenced eg. by
http://www.researc= hgate.net/publication/257362707_The_magnetospheric_echo_box_--_A_type_of_= long-delayed_echo_explained=20 or http://folk.uio.no/sverre/papers/2009_MagnetoDucting-QST-LA3ZA.pdf= , or in an = article by Peter=20 Martinez in Radcom Oct 2007). Wonder if=20 you happened to find an unsusual delay - it could be more = than=20 half a second, so maybe just noticable in a voice = circuit.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: Alan Melia
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 6:16 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: Re: Re: Poor conditions - the return of=20 skywave

Hi Laurence you dont say what frequency = the pole to=20 pole path was? I wonder whether it might have been a sort of duct = (trough its=20 sometimes called) above the D-layer. The auroral hole might even help = the=20 signals into it :-))  Top band is supposed to exhibit that mode = sometimes.=20 Otherwise maybe a similar mode to whistler transmission, though your = frequency=20 might be too high for that.....the duct seems favourite.
 
The inside the auroral ring events = suggest the=20 precipitation is occuring at the latitude of the aurora, and this = spreads out as=20 it diffuses south. Hence its not quite so bad in Vancouver. I reckon = your=20 problem is launching that first hop through that.
 
It is not over yet, the Dst has started = to dip=20 again (Kyoto has gone up) I think this is the precursor to another = coronal hole=20 flow predicted for the 25th. I doesnt look too bad on the = animation but it=20 will add some electrons to the ring current and drag out the recovery a=20 bit.
 
Alan
G3NYK
 
----- Original Message -----
From:=20 Laurence KL7 L =
Sent: Tuesday, March 24, 2015 = 3:30=20 PM
Subject: LF: Re: Poor = conditions - the=20 return of skywave

Thanks Alan - it certainly was a kicker up here -=20
 
Last night I had my first decode on 475kHz from WH2XGP = since=20 17th from the "vanished" band - so this shows a slight = improvement - very=20 slight.
 
Its amazing to me that such relatively small = changes in=20 latitude have close to a logarithmic effect in losses. Its a different = world=20 here at 61N to my friends in Seattle just a 3 hour flight South, but = again,=20 and specific to this location -  these local and not so local = ragged=20 mountain ranges are breaking up skywave reflections too to my=20 detriment, probably for signal coming in below 10 degrees = here - and=20 that's not helping at all either. I actually think this lat/geolat is = actually=20 worse than than up near the Geo Pole -
 
Base on our = Fiennes=20 expedition comms work Im still of an opinion that LF/MF =  comms=20 between stations inside the disturbed Auroral oval are = typically actually=20 way way better than on  the South side of it or in it during a = Mag/proton=20 event -   and often we sat there pondering - and came = to the=20 conclusion it was  like being in a one way semi conductor = mirror or=20 gold fish bowl with a very low noise level able to hear the world but = the=20 world not hearing us across the Oval . During the March 13th 1989 = event=20 another North Pole expedition hadn't been able to contact their = Spitzbergen=20 base and we were asked to look out for them at Ward Hunt on = 2182kHz as=20 part of the SAR - so I put out a few calls and there they were at = S7  - them using 5W to a small wire and good earth - signals were = so=20 stable with nearly no fade at some 1400Kms in a twilight period and = all within=20 this goldfish bowl - I actually had to tell them to reduce power as = their=20 batteries were so dead they were FMing..
 
The other = oddity was=20 the excellent North  Pole to South Pole HF comms during the = latter half=20 of that event - we couldnt talk to Resolute or Eureka down the road, = but could=20 swap Met and Sitreps to South Georgia and Rothera bases at huge = signals on=20 what appeared chordal hop - what an oddity that was - once the = iono=20 recovered a bit we lost this path....
 
thanks for the = input - roll=20 out the "quiet sun" please.
 
Laurence KL7L=20
 
 
From: alan.melia@btinternet.com
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date:=20 Mon, 23 Mar 2015 18:42:00 +0000
Subject: LF: Re: Poor = conditions

Hi Laurence and Roelof, Yes that was = a big one on=20 the 17th. I dont remember the Dst being depressed to -230nT for some = quite=20 long time. My thumbnail estimate says that it could take at least 14 = days and=20 possibly up to 21 days to really get back to to good conditions again. = The=20 succession of shocks really loaded up the ring current, and although = the Dst=20 has risen to -35nT its rate of increase has flattened = out.
Because the CME "snow-ploughed" it = way though a=20 coronal hole high speed stream the event produced a large multiple = proton=20 event which has died away now, but the PCA effects tend to linger. We = are=20 still gettting shocks (Kp 6 yesterday and Kp=3D5 today) which may = be=20 "sub-storms". These occur when ions and electrons trapped in the=20 mageto-tail are "spat back" towards Earth (another glob of plasma is = spat in=20 the opposite direction to conserve momentum) The mechanism is much = like he=20 release of energy from the strained Solar magnetic field that produced = the=20 CME. The trapped hot electrons "wind up" the field in the magneto-tail = until=20 it "snaps" into a lower energy state. The lost energy is carried by = the=20 ejected particles.
 
Alan
G3NYK 
------=_NextPart_000_0008_01D06677.058DB9E0--