Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.1 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t08EB3AX018499 for ; Thu, 8 Jan 2015 15:11:03 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y9DgD-0006B2-R9 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 14:03:17 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y9DgD-0006At-CW for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 14:03:17 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y9DgA-0003Tr-KY for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 14:03:16 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.31.67.1]) by mwinf5d06 with ME id dS3A1p00L01e2ES03S3A31; Thu, 08 Jan 2015 15:03:13 +0100 X-ME-Helo: AGB X-ME-Date: Thu, 08 Jan 2015 15:03:13 +0100 X-ME-IP: 2.31.67.1 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <46D2E1AF22D14849AD1095081F7613AB@AGB>, , <54AD702F.1009.1A52347@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <54AE61EB.7134.397DF4@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <54AE61EB.7134.397DF4@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> Date: Thu, 8 Jan 2015 14:03:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Scan-Signature: 222431427b0fb799ed82c2c5d7851cd5 Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' << Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1874 Hi Mike, It is actually set to just over 5 dB gain over the standard Opera system , the opds s/n reports can be upto 4 db's lower for the same signal , but interims of ultimate sensitivity , the 11 dB advantage was not demonstrated in testing , Its interesting to note , that the search detection could only improve on the Opera data decoder by 5 or 6 dB for the same level of reliability , which as a data mode , points to it being quite efficient Your right , you have now 2 systems in one package , watching last night , I could see some miss-decodes from both , but the dynamic list remained valid , which is one of the design features and will minimise its content on a 8 day rolling schedule Compared to the initial roll out , when the news groups lit up with 'too much cpu' and we hate OOK mfsk is better etc , I think the launch went quite well , its really to the user as to what use is made of the available systems , Jose maintains this is a hobby .. Early days yet , 73-Graham, G0NBD -------------------------------------------------- From: "Mike Dennison" Sent: Thursday, January 08, 2015 10:54 AM To: ; Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' << > Having taken a long look at Opera 1.5.5, it seems to have good and > band points, but is useful if used with great caution. > > On the plus side, it appears to have some 3dB more sensitivity than > previous versions of Opera. This is not better than DF6NM's OPDS > program, but that is more complex to set up. > > On the minus side is the number of believable false decodes which I > think are being underestimated by the program's advocates. For > instance, on day one one third of the times that my transmissions > were reported I was off the air. On day two I transmitted once but > was reported on two occasions. However, all of these false decodes > were one-offs, in other words only one station reported me at that > time, whereas several reported the genuine transmissions. > > So, v1.5.5 looks very useful but any decodes that are reported by > just one station has a high likelihood (but not certainty) of being > false. For this reason, I would not advise using this version without > having a web connection, or at least cross-checking later against the > web archive. > > Mike, G3XDV > ========== > >> Graham, thanks for the useful info. I have sent you a direct email >> with some constructive suggestions. >> >> One snag with false decodes of this type is that you don't know they >> are false unless the sender denies he was sending (or propagation is >> impossible) at that time, so there will be statistically far fewer >> reports of false decodes than there are in reality. I transmitted four >> times in the last 24 hours and there were two additional decodes >> falsely carryng my callsign in the same period. That's two out of a >> total of six, ie 33%. >> >> regards >> Mike >> ===== >> >> > Some points Mike >> > >> > 200%F is a bodge to get the text beacon via the server , not >> > showing in my latest spot listing ? >> > >> > JA8SCD de SWL-JA8SCD/1 (): Op32 0 mi -41 dB in Tokyo with 0w + >> > 16:29 136 JA8SCD de JA8SCD/1 Op32 Deep Search 0 mi -41 dB in >> > Tokyo with 0w + >> > >> > 4 Min processing delay showing in these detection's >> > >> > 16:15 136 LA3EQ de G4WGT Op32 Deep Search 468 mi -43 dB in >> > Chorley, IO83qo, with 0.2w + Marconi-T 16:11 136 LA3EQ de G8HUH >> > Op32 605 mi -34 dB F:15% in Somerset with 0.2w + Marconi-T >> > >> > 17:23 136 LA3EQ de GW0EZY Op32 Deep Search 541 mi -42 dB in >> > Welshpool IO82ho with 0.2w + Marconi-T 17:23 136 LA3EQ de 2E0ILY >> > Op32 Deep Search 505 mi -42 dB in Shropshire IO82qv with 0.2w + >> > Marconi-T 17:19 136 LA3EQ de G8HUH Op32 605 mi -33 dB F:1% in >> > Somerset with 0.2w + Marconi-T >> > >> > >> > >> Nothing can be 100% , Dynamic detections , will show 1 >> > >> minuet after conventional OP8 and 4 minuets after a >> > >> conventional OP32 decode , this is due to data processing >> > >> time and is a fixed off set , Time can be used as a >> > >> reality >> > >> check >> > >> > >> > There are now two entirely different systems packaged in the >> > one application , the original Opera data mode , which is >> > capable of presenting the fade pattern and the s/n , the >> > other >> > relies on call matching and presents s/n only , hence the >> > 'odd' 200%F , the dynamic search has been trailed on normal >> > 'ham' kit and provides an extension to the existing system . >> > >> > Before any variations are attempted , off air stats are >> > needed , there was close to 100 instances of V155 in use >> > since its launch , with only 1 error that would be 1% . >> > Occurrences will >> > be statistically related to user numbers >> > >> > Where it is unfortunate 'real' calls are produced , the >> > time delay presents a simple , at a glance spot-check , the >> > integrity of the original system has not been compromised, at the >> > moment the list has a 8 day life , this could be reduced , but >> > with the 7 day operating cycle , 8 provides overlap >> > >> > 73-G, >> > >> > >> > >> > -------------------------------------------------- >> > From: "Mike Dennison" >> > Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2015 3:37 PM >> > To: >> > Subject: Re: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' << >> > >> > > Sorry, Graham, but you are wrong. Last night's results did not >> > > "give a good working compromise between real and false >> > > detections." There were several very plausible but false decodes. >> > > These appeared much more frequently than they do on OPDS which in >> > > any case gives enough additional information on signal quality to >> > > be able to spot most false decodes. It's a nice idea, but the >> > > real/false threshold is set much too far towards 'real', making >> > > the resultant information next to useless. >> > > >> > > And what is the "200%" fade figure all about? I am 1000% sure I >> > > don't know. >> > > >> > > Mike, G3XDV >> > > ========== >> > > >> > >> All, >> > >> >> > >> Other than the odd false spot , that looked to be quite a >> > >> good launch for the new addition to Opera >> > >> >> > >> Nothing can be 100% , Dynamic detections , will show 1 >> > >> minuet after conventional OP8 and 4 minuets after a >> > >> conventional OP32 decode , this is due to data processing >> > >> time and is a fixed off set , Time can be used as a >> > >> reality >> > >> check . >> > >> >> > >> Dynamic compares Call Signs with activity , to provide the >> > >> lowest possible detection levels , to do this , Opera >> > >> changes mode to give a second chance detection , based on >> > >> s/n , The detection threshold has been set to give a good >> > >> working compromise between real and false detections. >> > >> >> > >> Noting , each individual transmission is processed >> > >> independently , Conventional and Dynamic processes are >> > >> running in parallel >> > >> >> > >> 73-Graham >> > >> G0NBD >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> From: Graham >> > >> Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2015 8:38 PM >> > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> > >> Subject: LF: New version OPERA >> ''Opera Dynamic'' << >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> New version of opera up-loaded >> > >> >> > >> Opera Dynamic: Introduces the first, adaptive multi mode >> > >> Beacon decoding/detection system , seamlessly taking over from >> > >> the Opera data decoder and dynamically configuring the low >> > >> level detector. >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Opera Dynamic is configured for MF OP8 and LF OP32 , >> > >> providing >> > >> a dynamically configured low level detection mode , >> > >> complimenting the Opera Data mode , >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> Opera Dynamic forms part of the windows distributed >> > >> package , >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> 73-Graham >> > >> >> > >> G0NBD >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> UPLOAD >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> http://rosmodem.wordpress.com/ >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> SUPPORT >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/O_P_E_R_A_/info >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> https://www.facebook.com/groups/operadatamode/ >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ----- >> > >> No virus found in this message. >> > >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8885 - Release Date: >> > >> 01/07/15 >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > ----- >> > No virus found in this message. >> > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8885 - Release Date: >> > 01/07/15 >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> ----- >> No virus found in this message. >> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com >> Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8885 - Release Date: >> 01/07/15 >> > > >