Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1169; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.9 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, FORGED_RCVD_HELO,RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t0AHpiY8025107 for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 18:51:44 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YA06N-0002vX-TO for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 17:45:31 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YA06N-0002vO-JL for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 17:45:31 +0000 Received: from smtp-out33.otenet.gr ([83.235.69.33] helo=echidna.otenet.gr) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1YA06L-0001aD-Ji for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 17:45:30 +0000 Received: from mePC (ppp-2-84-242-100.home.otenet.gr [2.84.242.100]) by echidna.otenet.gr (ESMTP) with SMTP for ; Sat, 10 Jan 2015 19:45:25 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: From: "SV8CS-Spiros Chimarios" To: References: <54B10878.10172.535233@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com>, <6F0B87EF8D1F4AA0AF70320B15F3E120@AGB> <54B1635A.16750.1B653F9@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> In-Reply-To: <54B1635A.16750.1B653F9@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> Date: Sat, 10 Jan 2015 17:45:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 15.4.3555.308 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V15.4.3555.308 X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 83.235.69.33 (smtp-out33.otenet.gr) used invalid HELO/EHLO echidna.otenet.gr - verification failed X-Scan-Signature: 34d483c57c7a6bf26c25db3c8765d5fc Subject: LF: SV8CS Opera improving Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="UTF-8"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1926 Another false decode 17:18 136 JA8SCD de SV8CS Op32 Deep Search ?? 9711 km -43 dB in Zakynthos Island with 0.001w + dummy 73, Spiros/SV8CS -----Αρχικό μήνυμα----- From: Mike Dennison Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 5:37 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Opera improving The new checking system has just worked. JA8SCD was reported by SV8CS at nearly 10,000km on 136kHz whilst the JA was using a dummy load. This is plainly a false decode, but the new software showed "Deep Search ??" to indicate this should be viewed with caution. Mike, G3XDV =========== > Power gain is close to 6 dB , so that's a times four over > the standard Opera data decode limits > > Any numerically processed data mode is based solely on Guess > work, just that Guess work is translated by decision making > and fuzzy logic in to a reproduction of the original message > > Modes like opera / ros / olivia etc use algorithms to compress > and extract the call , hence opera data miss decodes, 'have' a > normal call profile , but are not valid . simple rtty just > produce's near random data > > In the case of Marcus's opds , your are presented with a set > of values , a little deeper , these will of been constructed > from a layer of fuzzy logic , as are the dsp decisions in > opera etc , in the case of Opera dynamic , the outputs from > the data decoder and the 'search' detector are assimilated by > a another layer of decision making logic > > The command structure , then decides at what point the decoder > has failed and the results from the detector are evaluated , > the dynamic call lists are maintained , via tx web beacon and > 1+1 quality check of decoded calls > > Table is held for 8 days We did have 3 days as the original > cycle time , however , as activity on 136/477 tends to follow > the 7 day week pattern , stations using pic/pi/U3 and other Tx > systems , with no web-beacon would need to be decoded by 2 > stations using op32/op8 on there first pass, to catch the > second > > The show go's on ;) > > 73-Graham > G0NBD > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------- > From: "Mike Dennison" > Sent: Saturday, January 10, 2015 11:09 AM > To: ; > Subject: LF: Opera improving > > > There is a British saying "Don't throw the baby out with the > > bathwater". Amongst the criticism of false decodes (which I have > > been part of), we must not forget that Opera is now more sensitive - > > the equivalent of doubling everybody's power - which must be good. > > This has led to many more good DX decodes. > > > > Now, in response to suggestions from users, the writers have > > modified the program to flag up decodes that might be suspicious, > > which is what OPDS does (but in a different way). Used with caution, > > this will address most of the problems experienced with the launch > > version. > > > > The controversial PDF file has also been dropped from the zip file. > > > > Deep Search, originally developed by DF6NM, has always involved > > "guesswork", and therefore needs to be viewed with caution. In short > > it compares a list of known active stations (again Op and OPDS does > > this differently) with what might be described as 'partial decodes' > > and finds the best match. Anyone who has worked DX, operated in a > > contest or used QRSS will be familiar with that technique. Indeed > > that is how the human brain works all of the time - it matches what > > its sees with a huge look-up table of past experiences, which is why > > we see faces in clouds (a false decode). The key is to use our > > experience to work out what is true and what is false. > > > > I would suggest three more improvements: > > > > My understanding is that callsigns in the 'look-up table' are > > dropped after 8 hours. Reducing this period might help. > > > > For those who don't like Deep Search, there should be an 'off' > > switch, perhaps in the existing Deep Search menu. The 'on' swtch > > might come with a "use with caution" message. > > > > Used carefully, the new v1.5.6 should be a great improvement on the > > (pre Deep Search) version 1.5.4. > > > > Mike, G3XDV > > =========== > > > > > > ----- > No virus found in this message. > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 2015.0.5577 / Virus Database: 4257/8901 - Release Date: > 01/10/15 >