Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-1.6 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,DNS_FROM_AHBL_RHSBL, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE,RCVD_ILLEGAL_IP autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id t0GMPjfZ011210 for ; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:25:45 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1YCFDj-0005qR-7I for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:18:23 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1YCFDi-0005qI-Mx for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:18:22 +0000 Received: from smtpout1.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.29] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.85) (envelope-from ) id 1YCFDP-0001Bc-HZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:18:21 +0000 Received: from AGB ([2.31.67.120]) by mwinf5d02 with ME id gmJ11p0092bh2SA03mJ1Mg; Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:18:02 +0100 X-ME-Helo: AGB X-ME-Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 23:18:02 +0100 X-ME-IP: 2.31.67.120 Message-ID: <37A72AE6A9D14925B0C07A82A36F21DB@AGB> From: "Graham" To: References: <54B6D3D8.7070000@kpnmail.nl> <7A64238C4EA44F11B7BB8CDA9687EC2A@AGB> <002e01d0304e$1368c500$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> In-Reply-To: <002e01d0304e$1368c500$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> Date: Fri, 16 Jan 2015 22:18:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Scan-Signature: d7b6e02b91d1bc9fedf732bdb432c3bc Subject: Re: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives ghost detection. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B1_01D031DA.4A216B00" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2007 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01D031DA.4A216B00 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay, The house style is everything is on the inside , Ros/Opera are = designed to achieve the best performance from standard HAM = kit , in the case of the dynamic option , high stability will = reduce the processing times , but the final s/n is roughly the = same,=20 processing algorithms are used to minimise the level of false = detections against s/n , the spots that are wrongly validated and = presented, can be tested against other users , as shown below , = or against the data in the pak-map data base =20 two detections , same call same time stamp is taken as validation = , =20 G, Hear G8LCO and others decode in OP8 , 21:53 Gw0EZY + Myself 21:54 = , ie + 1 min=20 21:53 477 LA3EQ de G0NBD Op8 Deep Search 488 mi -35 dB in Liverpool with = 0.01w + Marconi-T 21:53 477 LA3EQ de GW0EZY Op8 Deep Search 541 mi -35 dB in Welshpool = IO82ho with 0.01w + Marconi-T 21:52 477 LA3EQ de G8LCO Op8 513 mi -26 dB F:12% in Welwyn Herts with = 0.01w + Marconi-T Same in this sequence , but G8HUH is false , No other decode , = system stamps with '??' 21:28 477 SV8CS de SV8RV-2 Op8 6 mi +3 dB F:3% in Zakynthos (Zante) = isl.GREECE with 0.1w + "T" Marconi 21:28 477 SV8CS de SP5XSB Op8 995 mi -7 dB F:14%_Ini in Raszyn nr Warsaw = with 0.1w + "T" Marconi 21:25 477 G8HUH de LA3EQ Op8 Deep Search ?? -37 dB in Egersund, Norway 21:24 477 LA3EQ de SP5XSB Op8 Deep Search 728 mi -37 dB in Raszyn nr = Warsaw with 0.01w + Marconi-T -------------------------------------------------- From: Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 11:01 PM To: Subject: Re: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives ghost detection. >> More than one detection/decode is then used to certify the = spot. >=20 > Certify the spot? The fact that someone else somewhere received a spot = means that your spot=20 > certified good? Really? No further corroboration necessary? >=20 > With DF6NM's OPDS system there's the correlation % and dB 'certainty' = indicator, an accurate time=20 > indicator of the transmission and a highly accurate frequency readout = that are all used for=20 > corroboration. >=20 > Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 >=20 > ----- Original Message -----=20 > From: "Graham" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 4:17 PM > Subject: Re: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives ghost detection. >=20 >=20 >> Jan, >> >> As posted , any decode in dynamic , will only show calls from = the list , this is the bill=20 >> for the extra 5/6 dB gain .. >> your spots are pre-fixed with ''??'' this is added by the = web-linked system and=20 >> denotes a unique detection , false Opera decodes have a call = sign format , with random=20 >> characters. >> >> Deep Search ?? >> >> More than one detection/decode is then used to certify the = spot >> >> To check the validity , you can use the psk-data base , = which holds the web-tx beacon=20 >> and rx-spot time stamped , Opera 8 Dynamic resolves in 0>2 mins = , Op32Dy 2 >5 Mins after=20 >> tx /end/decode >> >> Otherwise , the system provides the quality check ... >> >> false .... >> 19:31 477 SV8CS de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 1260 mi -35 dB in = Mijdrecht with 0.1w + Marconi=20 >> "T" >> >> Ok ...inside the 2<>5 Min processing time for op32 dy , G3XDV = validating the tx /rx time >> >> 20:21 136 G8HUH de EA5DOM-RX Op32 Deep Search 889 mi -41 dB in = Albir RX Site >> 20:17 136 G8HUH de G3XDV Op32 124 mi -13 dB F:0% in Welwyn IO91VT >> >> 73-G, >> -------------------------------------------------- >> From: "pa3abk" >> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 8:38 PM >> To: "blacksheep" >> Subject: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives ghost detection. >> >>> This eve I monitored MF Opera, however my WSPR timer was operational = the same time giving a 2 min=20 >>> carrier at h10, h30 & h50. >>> Sorry for the unwanted QRM, however to my surprise NL9222 detected = following: >>> 18:51 477 SV8CS de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 2027 km -35 dB in = Mijdrecht with 0.1w + Marconi=20 >>> "T" >>> 19:11 477 LA3EQ de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 693 km -37 dB in = Mijdrecht with 0.01w + Marconi-T >>> 19:31 477 SV8CS de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 2027 km -35 dB in = Mijdrecht with 0.1w + Marconi=20 >>> "T" >>> >>> NL9222 is 42km from me and receives my sigs at +1dB >>> >>> No other stations detected these stations. I assume they were not = QRV either. >>> Maybe on LF? >>> >>> I have the feeling that Opera DS is acting more human than desired. >>> It's the same when a CW human taker is decoding a plain language = text in heavy QRM at QSA 0. >>> You assume that certain patterns is forming a plain word which match = the look_up table you have=20 >>> stored in your brain. >>> >>> Jan/pa3abk >>> >>> --=20 >>> pa3abk <-> dordrecht jo21it >>> Sent by Philips STB-75 with T100 >>> >>> >>=20 >=20 > ------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01D031DA.4A216B00 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jay,
 
The house style is everything is on the  inside , =20 Ros/Opera  are  designed  to  achieve  = the =20 best  performance  from   standard  = HAM   kit=20 ,    in the  case  of the  dynamic  = option=20 ,  high  stability will  reduce the  processing = times=20 ,  but the  final  s/n  is roughly  the same, =
 
processing  algorithms are used  to  minimise = the =20 level  of  false detections against s/n ,  the  = spots=20 that  are  wrongly  validated  and presented, can = be =20 tested  against  other  users  , as  shown = below=20 ,  or   against the  data  in the  = pak-map =20 data  base   
 
 two detections ,  same  call  same time =20 stamp  is taken as validation , 
 
G,
 
 
 
Hear  G8LCO and  others  decode  = in =20 OP8 ,  21:53 Gw0EZY + Myself  21:54  ,   = ie  + 1=20 min

21:53 477 LA3EQ de G0NBD Op8 Deep Search 488 mi -35 dB in Liverpool = with=20 0.01w + Marconi-T

21:53 477 LA3EQ de GW0EZY Op8 Deep Search 541 mi -35 dB in Welshpool = IO82ho=20 with 0.01w + Marconi-T

21:52 477 LA3EQ de G8LCO Op8 513 mi -26 dB F:12% in Welwyn Herts with = 0.01w +=20 Marconi-T

Same  in this  sequence , but  = G8HUH =20 is   false ,  No  other  decode  , = system =20 stamps  with  '??'

21:28 477 SV8CS de SV8RV-2 Op8 6 mi +3 dB F:3% in Zakynthos = (Zante)=20 isl.GREECE with 0.1w + "T" Marconi

21:28 477 SV8CS de SP5XSB Op8 995 mi -7 dB F:14%_Ini in = Raszyn nr=20 Warsaw with 0.1w + "T" Marconi

21:25 477 G8HUH de LA3EQ Op8 Deep Search ?? -37 dB in = Egersund,=20 Norway

21:24 477 LA3EQ de SP5XSB Op8 Deep Search 728 mi -37 dB in = Raszyn nr=20 Warsaw with 0.01w + Marconi-T

 

 


--------------------------------------------------
From: = <jrusgrove@comcast.net>
Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 11:01 = PM
To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Subject: Re: LF: Opera = -Just a=20 2 mins carrier gives ghost detection.

>> More than  = one =20 detection/decode  is  then  used  to  certify = the =20 spot.
>
> Certify the spot? The fact that someone else = somewhere=20 received a spot means that your spot
> certified good? Really? No = further=20 corroboration necessary?
>
> With DF6NM's OPDS system = there's the=20 correlation % and dB 'certainty' indicator, an accurate time
> = indicator=20 of the transmission and a highly accurate frequency readout that are all = used=20 for
> corroboration.
>
> Jay W1VD  WD2XNS  = WE2XGR/2
>
>
>
>
>
> ----- = Original=20 Message -----
> From: "Graham" = <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
>=20 To: <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
> Sent: Wednesday, = January 14,=20 2015 4:17 PM
> Subject: Re: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives = ghost=20 detection.
>
>
>> Jan,
>>
>> As = posted=20 , any decode  in dynamic , will  only  show  = calls =20 from the  list , this  is the  bill
>> = for =20 the  extra  5/6 dB  gain ..
>> your spots =20 are  pre-fixed   with  ''??''   this  = is  added  by  the web-linked  system and =
>>=20 denotes  a  unique  detection , false Opera  decodes = have  a  call  sign  format  , with  = random=20
>> characters.
>>
>> Deep Search=20 ??
>>
>> More than  one  = detection/decode =20 is  then  used  to  certify the =20 spot
>>
>> To  check  the  validity = , =20 you  can  use  the  psk-data  base , which = holds =20 the  web-tx beacon
>> and  rx-spot time  = stamped=20 ,  Opera 8 Dynamic resolves  in 0>2  mins  , = Op32Dy =20 2 >5 Mins  after
>> tx = /end/decode
>>
>>=20 Otherwise , the  system  provides  the  = quality  check=20 ...
>>
>> false ....
>> = 19:31    477=20 SV8CS de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 1260 mi -35 dB in Mijdrecht with 0.1w = +=20 Marconi
>> "T"
>>
>> Ok ...inside  the=20 2<>5 Min  processing  time  for  op32 dy , = G3XDV=20 validating  the  tx  /rx  = time
>>
>>=20 20:21    136 G8HUH de EA5DOM-RX Op32 Deep Search 889 mi = -41 dB in=20 Albir RX Site
>> 20:17    136 G8HUH de G3XDV = Op32 124 mi=20 -13 dB F:0% in Welwyn IO91VT
>>
>> 73-G,
>>=20 --------------------------------------------------
>> From: = "pa3abk"=20 <pa3abk@kpnmail.nl>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 14, 2015 = 8:38=20 PM
>> To: "blacksheep" = <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
>>=20 Subject: LF: Opera -Just a 2 mins carrier gives ghost=20 detection.
>>
>>> This eve I monitored MF Opera, = however my=20 WSPR timer was operational the same time giving a 2 min
>>> = carrier=20 at h10, h30 & h50.
>>> Sorry for the unwanted QRM, = however to my=20 surprise NL9222 detected following:
>>> = 18:51    477=20 SV8CS de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 2027 km -35 dB in Mijdrecht with 0.1w = +=20 Marconi
>>> "T"
>>> 19:11    477 = LA3EQ=20 de NL9222 Op8 Deep Search ?? 693 km -37 dB in Mijdrecht with 0.01w +=20 Marconi-T
>>> 19:31    477 SV8CS de NL9222 = Op8 Deep=20 Search ?? 2027 km -35 dB in Mijdrecht with 0.1w + Marconi =
>>>=20 "T"
>>>
>>> NL9222 is 42km from me and receives = my sigs=20 at +1dB
>>>
>>> No other stations detected these = stations. I assume they were not QRV either.
>>> Maybe on=20 LF?
>>>
>>> I have the feeling that Opera DS is = acting=20 more human than desired.
>>> It's the same when a CW human = taker is=20 decoding a plain language text in heavy QRM at QSA 0.
>>> = You assume=20 that certain patterns is forming a plain word which match the look_up = table you=20 have
>>> stored in your = brain.
>>>
>>>=20 Jan/pa3abk
>>>
>>> --
>>> pa3abk = <->=20 dordrecht jo21it
>>> Sent by Philips STB-75 with=20 T100
>>>
>>>
>>
>=20
>
------=_NextPart_000_00B1_01D031DA.4A216B00--