Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1169; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.3 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sBTM5UG0024214 for ; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 23:05:30 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y5iLF-0007KR-Az for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 21:59:09 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y5iLE-0007KI-VX for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 21:59:08 +0000 Received: from blu004-omc1s28.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.39]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1.2:AES256-SHA256:256) (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y5iLB-0004Gc-O1 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Dec 2014 21:59:07 +0000 Received: from BLU177-W51 ([65.55.116.9]) by BLU004-OMC1S28.hotmail.com over TLS secured channel with Microsoft SMTPSVC(7.5.7601.22751); Mon, 29 Dec 2014 13:59:03 -0800 X-TMN: [bgVm8ElCTKnV7Bpt8ak4m319UWjl5ItB] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Laurence KL7 L To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" , "rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk" Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 12:59:02 -0900 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <8D1F17FE8B4E244-18E4-3CD75@webmail-vm171.sysops.aol.com> References: <8D1F17FE8B4E244-18E4-3CD75@webmail-vm171.sysops.aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Dec 2014 21:59:03.0360 (UTC) FILETIME=[A89A9C00:01D023B2] X-Scan-Signature: cd79e98bb57cf38a756c15469b5a993e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_67bbfd98-23f1-4851-adde-9389e3f3ceca_" Subject: RE: LF: Long Path DCF39? X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1661 --_67bbfd98-23f1-4851-adde-9389e3f3ceca_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Heres a "marine animal" style picture of the VLF Short/Long path NWC inte= rference pattern taken back in April that Markus talks about =3D =20 http://kl7l.com/NWCJelly.jpg =20 No chance of seeing any such even on DCF39 at the moment - K went to 7 here= in Anchorage earlier in the day and path showing over 60dB of unwanted tra= nspolar attenuation =20 Good stuff Edgar/Markus =20 =20 Laurence Kl7L =20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=3B rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk From: markusvester@aol.com Date: Mon=2C 29 Dec 2014 08:10:10 -0500 Subject: LF: Long Path DCF39? =0A= =0A= =0A= It looks like Edgar J. Twining may occasionally be getting a glimpse from = DCF39 via the long path to Orford/Tasmania=2C about 23.6 megameters! Please= have a look into the folder=20 =0A= df6nm.bplaced.net/LF/longpath =0A= There is a DCF spectrogram from yesterday morning (14-12-28) which contains= a little dash between 7:44 and 7:47 UT=2C only three minutes long. It is s= howing on exactly the same frequency as the usual nighttime trace (138830.3= Hz on the scale=2C slightly below the real transmit frequency 830.6). The = dash occured 23 minutes after sunrise in Magdeburg (7:22)=2C and about two = hours before sunset in Tasmania. Searching my harddisk=2C I happend to find= one other saved screenshot which possibly contains a similar event at Oct = 4th=2C 5:54 to 6:00 UT.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= I have to admit that I still have some doubts as the two candidate dashes a= re pretty close to the noise level. Anyway these were just serendipitous ob= servations=2C as I normally did't think of watching Edgar's grabber =0A= https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101251787/testIDC.html=20 =0A= before our darkness. After informing Edgar=2C he has offered to start savin= g an additional screenshot at 9 UT=2C covering the period of potential long= path reception. As you can guess=2C I was eagerly awaiting the spectrogram= this morning=2C but unfortunately the noise background from thunderstorms = happened to be prohibitively high. =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= On VLF frequencies around 20 kHz=2C long path propagation is not really unu= sual. In Europe=2C spectrogram ripples on NWC 19.8 kHz caused by interferen= ce between short and long path components are easily visible every day. The= effect is emphasized by daytime reflections at the lower D-layer boundary= =2C a predominantly oceanic path across the Pacific and Atlantic=2C and geo= magnetic nonreciprocity favouring west-east direction. =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= But on LF frequencies this is a very different story. The daytime D-layer b= ehaves as an effective absorber rather than a reflector. But (by definition= ) the long-path can never be completely in darkness. Thus such a LF long-pa= th detection would at least be very unusual=2C and might even be the first = one ever reported. The Orford receiver on the Tasmanian east cost seems to = be in a very favourable location for this purpose=2C with a mostly oceanic = path from Europe=2C including the chance to bring home the signal across th= e last couple of megameters in daylight by seawater groundwave.=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= 73=2C and best wishes=2C =0A= Markus =0A= =0A= = --_67bbfd98-23f1-4851-adde-9389e3f3ceca_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Heres a =3B "marine animal" =  =3Bstyle picture of the VLF Short/Long path NWC =3Binterference pa= ttern taken back in April that Markus talks about =3B=3D
 =3Bhttp://kl7l.com/NWCJelly.jpg
 =3B
No chance= of seeing any such even on DCF39 at the moment - K went to 7 here in Ancho= rage earlier in the day and path showing over 60dB of unwanted transpolar&n= bsp=3Battenuation
 =3B
Good stuff Edgar/Markus
 =3B
&nb= sp=3B
Laurence Kl7L

 =3B
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=3B rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups.co.uk
From: ma= rkusvester@aol.com
Date: Mon=2C 29 Dec 2014 08:10:10 -0500
Subject: L= F: Long Path DCF39?

=0A=
=0A= =0A=
It looks like Edgar J. Twining may occasionally be getting a glimpse = from DCF39 via the long path to Orford/Tasmania=2C about 23.6 megameters! P= lease have a look into the folder =3B
=0A=  =3Bdf6nm.bplaced.net/LF/longpath
=0A= There is a DCF spectrogram from yesterday morning (14-12-28) which contains= a little dash between 7:44 and 7:47 UT=2C only three minutes long. It is s= howing on exactly the same frequency as the usual nighttime trace (138830.3= Hz on the scale=2C slightly below the real transmit frequency 830.6). The = dash occured 23 minutes after sunrise in Magdeburg (7:22)=2C and about two = hours before sunset in Tasmania. Searching my harddisk=2C I happend to find= one other saved screenshot which possibly contains a similar event at Oct = 4th=2C 5:54 to 6:00 UT.
=0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
I have to admit that I still have some doubts as the two candidate das= hes are pretty close to the noise level. Anyway these were just serendipito= us observations=2C as I normally did't think of watching Edgar's grabber=0A=  =3Bhttps://dl.dropboxusercont= ent.com/u/101251787/testIDC.html
=0A= before our darkness. After informing Edgar=2C he has offered to start savin= g an additional screenshot at 9 UT=2C covering the period of potential long= path reception. As you can guess=2C I was eagerly awaiting the spectrogram= this morning=2C but unfortunately the noise background from thunderstorms = happened to be prohibitively high.
=0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
On VLF frequencies around 20 kHz=2C long path propagation is not reall= y unusual. In Europe=2C spectrogram ripples on NWC 19.8 kHz caused by inter= ference between short and long path components are easily visible every day= . The effect is emphasized by daytime reflections at the lower D-layer boun= dary=2C a predominantly oceanic path across the Pacific and Atlantic=2C and= geomagnetic nonreciprocity favouring west-east direction.
=0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
But on LF frequencies this is a very different story. The daytime D-la= yer behaves as an effective absorber rather than a reflector. But (by defin= ition) the long-path can never be completely in darkness. Thus such a LF lo= ng-path detection would at least be very unusual=2C and might even be the f= irst one ever reported. The Orford receiver on the Tasmanian east cost seem= s to be in a very favourable location for this purpose=2C with a mostly oce= anic path from Europe=2C including the chance to bring home the signal acro= ss the last couple of megameters in daylight by seawater groundwave.
= =0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
73=2C and best wishes=2C
=0A= Markus
=0A=
=0A=
= --_67bbfd98-23f1-4851-adde-9389e3f3ceca_--