Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1233; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-2.0 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=unavailable version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sBMMkU3G007458 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:46:30 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Y3BeW-0001uY-Ol for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:40:36 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Y3BeW-0001uP-D7 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:40:36 +0000 Received: from rhcavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be ([134.58.240.129] helo=cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1Y3BeU-00013U-EQ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:40:35 +0000 X-KULeuven-Envelope-From: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.be X-KULeuven-Scanned: Found to be clean X-KULeuven-ID: B078D138036.A2B20 X-KULeuven-Information: Katholieke Universiteit Leuven Received: from icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (icts-p-smtps-1e.kulnet.kuleuven.be [134.58.240.33]) by cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTP id B078D138036 for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:40:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-HUB2.luna.kuleuven.be (icts-s-hub2.luna.kuleuven.be [10.112.9.16]) (using TLSv1 with cipher AES128-SHA (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by icts-p-smtps-1.cc.kuleuven.be (Postfix) with ESMTPS id AE5BC404D for ; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:40:21 +0100 (CET) Received: from ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::edaf:341f:90e:f70e]) by ICTS-S-HUB2.luna.kuleuven.be ([fe80::8559:ca7c:e195:e15d%26]) with mapi id 14.03.0224.002; Mon, 22 Dec 2014 23:40:21 +0100 X-Kuleuven: This mail passed the K.U.Leuven mailcluster From: Rik Strobbe To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Thread-Topic: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. Thread-Index: AQHQHgEXevNbTHocukCEp2R6i4rS05ybuOgAgAAUiQCAADYctoAAE8WAgAAbpVM= Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 22:40:20 +0000 Message-ID: <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349F9CC@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be> References: <00b601d01d18$87884620$9698d260$@nifty.com> <5A42D7F671FE4DBEAEAD33E87D02E740@F6CNIHPg7>,<5498556C.4070605@gmail.com> <7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349E96D@ICTS-S-MBX1.luna.kuleuven.be>,<54989365.9080906@gmail.com> In-Reply-To: <54989365.9080906@gmail.com> Accept-Language: nl-BE, en-GB, en-US Content-Language: nl-BE X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: x-originating-ip: [10.112.13.12] MIME-Version: 1.0 X-HELO-Warning: Remote host 134.58.240.129 (rhcavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be) used invalid HELO/EHLO cavuit01.kulnet.kuleuven.be - verification failed X-Scan-Signature: 3a21c85df7468d917c96c4564305897b Subject: RE: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349F9CCICTSSMBX1lunaku_" X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1580 --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349F9CCICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Stefan, I wasn't saying that propagation on 472kHz is the same as on 1800kHz. For s= ure it isn't. Just that the current winter condx are far worse than the 2008-2009 season = was, when lots of EU WSPR stations were copied in W/VE and vice versa. Rik ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= ] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2014 22:55 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. Hi Rik, But we're talking about EU <-> JA, not EU<-> US_west_coast. A little little= difference on 630m, apart from the absolute distances. And if i have to wait for the next sun spot minimum, then propagation on bo= th bands would be NOT similar because it is possible on 160m NOW. 73, Stefan Am 22.12.2014 20:47, schrieb Rik Strobbe: Stefan, some patience might help. Wait for the next sunspot minimum. In 2008 transatlantic WSPR was very common, even for stations with just som= e 100 mW ERP. 73, Rik ON7YD ________________________________ Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2014 18:31 Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz. Am 22.12.2014 17:17, schrieb Guy=E9 Andr=E9: [...] I agree with you, Mal. For DX, the Propagation on both MF BANDS 160 and 630= meters similar. The only diference is the ERP power, because on 630 m the = standard ham antennas have not 100 % of efficiency, HI. Propagation on both MF BANDS similar de MAL/G3KEV Never ever! I saw regular WSPR decodes with 2W TX power (if it is true!) on= 160m between EU and VK. No chance on 630m except some very very very very= very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very= very very very very very very very very very very very very rare events li= ke prooved by F6CNI :-) I've put out several 10000 WSPR sequences now, with decent power. Best dist= ances were to the US east coast, TF, EA, upper LA and near Moscow. Not a si= ngle one above 2500km over land. And most amateur antennas are not 100% efficient on 160m as well. But 1W ER= P is possible on MF for most i assume. In more than 2 years we saw now that= WSPR from EU does not propagate farer than 2000 km, except some TA detecti= ons, i.e. mostly water on the path. However it is a challenge to leave dete= ctions in 2000 km over land. And Japan is about 9000 km over land, from her= e, or France or UK. So let's hope for the very rare events. Better try LF instead, no choke :-) 73, Stefan --_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349F9CCICTSSMBX1lunaku_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Hi Stefan,

 

I wasn't saying that propagation on 472kHz is the same as on 1800kHz. Fo= r sure it isn't.

Just that the current winter condx are far worse than the 2008-2009= season was, when lots of EU WSPR stations were copied in W/VE and vice ver= sa.

 

Rik

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [o= wner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk7fc@googlemail.com] Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2014 22:55
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz.

Hi Rik,

But we're talking about EU <-> JA, not EU<-> US_west_coast. A l= ittle little difference on 630m, apart from the absolute distances.
And if i have to wait for the next sun spot minimum, then propagation on bo= th bands would be NOT similar because it is possible on 160m NOW.

73, Stefan

Am 22.12.2014 20:47, schrieb Rik Strobbe:

Stefan,

 

some patience might help. Wait for the next sunspot minimum.

In 2008 transatlantic WSPR was very common, even for stations with just = some 100 mW ERP.

 

73, Rik  ON7YD

 

Van: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [own= er-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] namens DK7FC [73dk= 7fc@googlemail.com]
Verzonden: maandag 22 december 2014 18:31
Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Onderwerp: Re: LF: Re: Japan on 475 kHz.


Am 22.12.2014 17:17, schrieb Guy=E9 Andr=E9:
[= ...]
 
I agree with you, Mal. For DX, the Propagation on bo= th MF BANDS 160 and 630 meters similar. The only diference is the ERP power= , because on 630 m the standard ham antennas have not 100 % of efficiency, = HI.

Propagation on both MF BANDS similar
de MAL/G3KEV

Never ever! I saw regular WSPR decodes with 2W TX power (if it is true!) on= 160m between EU and VK. No chance on 630m except some  very very very= very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very= very very very very very very very very very very very very very rare events like prooved by F6CNI :-)
I've put out several 10000 WSPR sequences now, with decent power. Best dist= ances were to the US east coast, TF, EA, upper LA and near Moscow. Not a si= ngle one above 2500km over land.
And most amateur antennas are not 100% efficient on 160m as well. But 1W ER= P is possible on MF for most i assume. In more than 2 years we saw now that= WSPR from EU does not propagate farer than 2000 km, except some TA detecti= ons, i.e. mostly water on the path. However it is a challenge to leave detections in 2000 km over land. And Ja= pan is about 9000 km over land, from here, or France or UK.
So let's hope for the very rare events. Better try LF instead, no choke :-)=

73, Stefan
--_000_7E7DFBB4D102A04DB5ADC88D66628A4A2349F9CCICTSSMBX1lunaku_--