Return-Path: X-Spam-DCC: paranoid 1102; Body=2 Fuz1=2 Fuz2=2 X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.1.3 (2006-06-01) on lipkowski.org X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=5.0 tests=BAYES_00,FORGED_RCVD_HELO, RATWARE_GECKO_BUILD autolearn=no version=3.1.3 Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by paranoid.lipkowski.org (8.13.7/8.13.7) with ESMTP id sB57SDpl015512 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 08:28:14 +0100 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1XwnA6-0007zH-1T for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 07:18:46 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1XwnA5-0007z8-DM for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 07:18:45 +0000 Received: from parrot.netcom.co.uk ([217.72.171.49]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.84) (envelope-from ) id 1XwnA3-0006e0-Lw for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Dec 2014 07:18:44 +0000 Received: from sb.abelian.org (i-194-106-52-83.freedom2surf.net [194.106.52.83]) by parrot.netcom.co.uk (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6564A3273F5 for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:18:03 +0000 (GMT) Received: from [127.0.0.1] (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by sb.abelian.org (Postfix) with ESMTP id 799C328A0F4A for ; Fri, 5 Dec 2014 07:18:42 +0000 (UTC) Message-ID: <54815C52.6080602@abelian.org> Date: Fri, 05 Dec 2014 07:18:42 +0000 From: Paul Nicholson User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux i686; rv:17.0) Gecko/20130106 Thunderbird/17.0.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <547E1C5B.7040902@freenet.de> <547E22D9.6000301@abelian.org> <5480A155.5020205@abelian.org> <001d01d00ff8$8376c750$8a6455f0$@comcast.net> In-Reply-To: <001d01d00ff8$8376c750$8a6455f0$@comcast.net> X-Scan-Signature: ce0e5a4ae990e5a63db3ab7aea21191b Subject: Re: VLF: W4DEX in Europe at 8820 Hz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.56 on 10.1.3.10 Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1421 A spectrum from the natural radio receiver at Sebring Florida 27.516N,81.517W range 869.4 km run by Joel Gonzalez, http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/141204b.png S/N is 12.6 dB in 55.5 uHz. The noise level there is often quite high both natural and man made. A rough spectrogram shows quite a good nighttime S/N http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/141204a.png but only for a while. A summer daytime test might do better on that path with less background to compete with. For comparison, here is W4DEX at Hawley Texas in similar bandwidth during the day on 2nd June, range to Hawley is 1816km. http://abelian.org/vlf/tmp/w4dex_140603b.gif Jim AA5BW wrote: > I can run 10uW ERP at 8820 Hz for ~ 12 hour periods; > oscillator stability may be ~100uHz. I think you would need another 7 to 10dB ERP increase and stability of order 10uHz to have a chance. If you can't manage so much power but can do long transmissions, it might just be worth trying the summer daytime T/A path. It is long and stable and although attenuation is higher, the background noise is lower. Might just be detectable in something like 25uHz bandwidth for a full day carrier. But your 10uW ought to reach Forest VA 37.344N,79.288W without difficulty. Markus DF6NM achieves over 1000km with 10uW or less, over a mostly land path - and gets across 14 character messages at that ERP and distance. For converting fT to uV and vice versa, on distant signals I just assume free space impedance and use fT = uV * 3.333 and uV = ft / 3.333 The 3.333 is just 1/c combined with some powers of 10 to convert the micro and femto units. -- Paul Nicholson --