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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id lk10si11864267wjc.177.2014.06.26.16.12.06 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 16:12:07 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: none (google.com: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org does not designate permitted sender hosts) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com; dmarc=pass (p=REJECT dis=NONE) header.from=aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1X0HCJ-0002gX-L5 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:27:11 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1X0HCJ-0002gO-13 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:27:11 +0100 Received: from omr-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.222.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:DHE-RSA-AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1X0HCG-0006C4-Lp for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 22:27:09 +0100 Received: from mtaout-mba02.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mba02.mx.aol.com [172.26.133.110]) by omr-m08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 8029170000089 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:27:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from White (95-91-237-52-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.237.52]) by mtaout-mba02.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id EBE9138000094 for ; Thu, 26 Jun 2014 17:27:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <035022EAC0734F35A16A16BB5DF0AE47@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: , <3E2191D6995647D48932529876C7636C@gnat> <53AC1579.29762.C84E42@mike.dennison.ntlworld.com> <493B56F7D40241A1BF5DF876FB4CAD25@gnat> Date: Thu, 26 Jun 2014 23:27:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1403818026; bh=BlJZSBu+A4kmKvJQyDDD0x68xDV6inFTQO76XiCuH6c=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=T0wys2pm+UbOZhMY+OxAqg9A/GwCht/v+PMXpZMqY/Xotj2KpcK79P1FUI5JlAUMc qYRhMkiZuIPOBxiCZch3wwQTRcAd6i3vo+8yg4h9vsdgo6YsQMpsX837FCj7/9kjSD 7F+aJbmUiwrBcvLt2K49m/NIz4dTOv1EhP8QYaEE= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1a856e53ac9029521d X-AOL-IP: 95.91.237.52 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Yes Alan, I also think the "dome", due to strongest D-layer ionisation around local noon, is the essence of good daytime skywave LF and VLF propagation. Loran-C observations seem to show that though the maximum is much shorter during the winter season, it is not necessarily weaker. I wonder whether increased sunlight intensity during January earth perihel might somewhat counteract lower solar elevation... If so, Southern latitudes should experience significantly stronger daytime propagation during their summer than we do in ours. [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.222.129 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 72f3686d3f5e154c987315e88c667a5f Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: Summer Solstice Test report Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0023_01CF9196.26D0BE10" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=HTML_20_30,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CF9196.26D0BE10 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Yes Alan, I also think the "dome", due to strongest D-layer ionisation = around local noon, is the essence of good daytime skywave LF and VLF = propagation.=20 Loran-C observations seem to show that though the maximum is much = shorter during the winter season, it is not necessarily weaker. I wonder = whether increased sunlight intensity during January earth perihel might = somewhat counteract lower solar elevation... If so, Southern latitudes = should experience significantly stronger daytime propagation during = their summer than we do in ours. =20 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Alan Melia=20 Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 3:08 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: RE: Summer Solstice Test report Hi Mike well at 137 the daytime signal is skywave over about 700km I=20 watched Budapest (about 1200km) and there is a distinct "dome" in the=20 response at local noon at mid path. This is higher in summer as the sun = is=20 higher and so stronger. I think on 472 the ground-wave is shorter=20 particularly at our power and aerial situations, and I suspect the = skywave=20 though there may not be as predominant as at 137. .....more day-time=20 absorption. I am sure the local environment, trees building etc has an=20 effect too. Alan ----- Original Message -----=20 From: "Mike Dennison" To: ; Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 12:43 PM Subject: LF: RE: Summer Solstice Test report > On 25 Jun 2014 at 21:55, Alan Melia wrote: >> >> It is interesting that there does seem to be a suggestion that 137 >> holds up better in summer than 472.......have I read that correctly, >> or maybe it was from another poster. I was not able to do the same >> sort of tests for 472. > > > I haven't done any scientific tests, but from a lot of monitoring it > seems that for daytime ranges around 500-1000km 136kHz works better > than 472kHz. I presume this because the 136kHz daytime propagation > over this distance is primarily by ground wave, whereas on 472kHz the > ground wave range is less so sky-wave is needed and this is not > available until dusk. > > It is difficult to compare the two bands over longer distances > because 472kHz is not available in Russia (unlike 136kHz), and > activity seems low in many other countries. > > Personally, I have been disappointed by the amount of DX received > during darkness hours on 472kHz so far. It seems commonplace > to receive stations out to Scandinavia and Italy, but little beyond. > Yes, I have seen some transatlantic DX but nothing to match > the stories of worldwide openings reported by retired marine 500kHz > operators, or indeed what is availalable routinely on 160m. Is this > just lack of activity? > > de Mike, G3XDV > =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D >=20 ------=_NextPart_000_0023_01CF9196.26D0BE10 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Yes Alan, I also think the "dome", = due to=20 strongest D-layer ionisation around local noon, is the essence = of good=20 daytime skywave LF and VLF propagation.
 
Loran-C observations seem to show that = though the=20 maximum is much shorter during the winter season, it is not = necessarily=20 weaker. I wonder whether increased sunlight intensity during = January earth=20 perihel might somewhat counteract lower solar elevation... If so, = Southern=20 latitudes should experience significantly stronger daytime = propagation=20 during their summer than we do in ours.   
 
73, Markus = (DF6NM)

From: Alan Melia
Sent: Thursday, June 26, 2014 3:08 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: Re: RE: Summer Solstice Test = report

Hi=20 Mike well at  137 the daytime signal is skywave over about 700km I=20
watched Budapest (about 1200km) and there is a distinct "dome" in = the=20
response at local noon at mid path. This is higher in summer as the = sun is=20
higher and so stronger. I think on 472 the ground-wave is shorter=20
particularly at our power and aerial situations, and I suspect the = skywave=20
though there may not be as predominant as at 137. .....more day-time =
absorption. I am sure the local environment, trees building etc has = an=20
effect too.

Alan

----- Original Message ----- =
From: "Mike=20 Dennison" <mike.dennison@ntlworld.com= >
To:=20 <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= >;=20 <rsgb_lf_group@yahoogroups= .co.uk>
Sent:=20 Thursday, June 26, 2014 12:43 PM
Subject: LF: RE: Summer Solstice = Test=20 report


> On 25 Jun 2014 at 21:55, Alan Melia=20 wrote:
>>
>> It is interesting that there does seem to = be a=20 suggestion that 137
>> holds up better in summer than = 472.......have I=20 read that correctly,
>> or maybe it was from another poster. I = was not=20 able to do the same
>> sort of tests for = 472.
>
>
> I=20 haven't done any scientific tests, but from a lot of monitoring = it
> seems=20 that for daytime ranges around 500-1000km 136kHz works better
> = than=20 472kHz. I presume this because the 136kHz daytime propagation
> = over this=20 distance is primarily by ground wave, whereas on 472kHz the
> = ground wave=20 range is less so sky-wave is needed and this is not
> available = until=20 dusk.
>
> It is difficult to compare the two bands over = longer=20 distances
> because 472kHz is not available in Russia (unlike = 136kHz),=20 and
> activity seems low in many other countries.
>
>=20 Personally, I have been disappointed by the amount of DX = received
> during=20 darkness hours on 472kHz so far. It seems commonplace
> to receive = stations out to Scandinavia and Italy, but little beyond.
> Yes, I = have=20 seen some transatlantic DX but nothing to match
> the stories of = worldwide=20 openings reported by retired marine 500kHz
> operators, or indeed = what is=20 availalable routinely on 160m. Is this
> just lack of=20 activity?
>
> de Mike, G3XDV
> = =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>=20


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