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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id c5si11275016wja.182.2014.04.20.01.12.36 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 01:12:36 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@gmail.com; dmarc=pass (p=NONE dis=NONE) header.from=gmail.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WbmWh-0007fG-22 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:50:59 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WbmWg-0007f5-CC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:50:58 +0100 Received: from mail-qc0-f178.google.com ([209.85.216.178]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:RC4-SHA:128) (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WbmWe-00031G-0d for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:50:57 +0100 Received: by mail-qc0-f178.google.com with SMTP id i8so3045992qcq.37 for ; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:50:52 -0700 (PDT) X-DKIM-Result: Domain=gmail.com Result=Good and Known Domain DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20120113; h=mime-version:in-reply-to:references:date:message-id:subject:from:to :content-type; bh=VF5aNHjrLKx4eMpUDukoN9CCUeYSEYB+YiGbCAil3Uw=; b=yq8/apMqzSTuVItisi1kelk8+zINR7Q/9wWvIiOcdrYiQjN8jFl2VOjjpDKb8Dbc7q JxCPBX3iucbaSGxwChPntA/MeJTkJfb8DKE0s/irD/T0atOxI8bO0ISSiC87zDEUn05W UP/2H+DTYZTTIrgJf6Dl3Pta21m1D+Ts11gvbcqpJQnT74p+hZEecjPfMFmDCJO6OjS7 mZFJ9gUim0Cffh3toX2Jd7taL6bEhma8oQ3LL6Jz/+5L07BmXDzaVTerkHP916XU6FV9 NwFGgo+tJ7GJu7KjyL3Wwkf1Jr7AAhMyrbQUYzDEi1lM8TFTDBfkbqhXAExy96oHbWIz Tliw== MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Received: by 10.140.81.197 with SMTP id f63mr167523qgd.114.1397980252404; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:50:52 -0700 (PDT) Received: by 10.96.142.164 with HTTP; Sun, 20 Apr 2014 00:50:52 -0700 (PDT) In-Reply-To: <045101cf5c30$6eeff940$4ccfebc0$@comcast.net> References: <5350FC04.9050301@psk31.plus.com> <53514E03.5090208@gmail.com> <53516582.8020502@psk31.plus.com> <045101cf5c30$6eeff940$4ccfebc0$@comcast.net> Date: Sun, 20 Apr 2014 08:50:52 +0100 Message-ID: From: Harry Woodhouse To: rsgb_lf_group X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Jim, Many thanks for your comments. You are obviously more skilled than I am. I would very much like to have a copy of your results. I will send you my E-mail address. Best wishes, [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.7 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_LOW RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, low trust [209.85.216.178 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hwoodhouse3[at]gmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.2 FREEMAIL_ENVFROM_END_DIGIT Envelope-from freemail username ends in digit (hwoodhouse3[at]gmail.com) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 4b1739ed9f8a5c36a1958dbdf5306bf7 Subject: Re: LF: Ground Tests at 8.9KHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary=001a11c129be591b2804f774a4ea X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --001a11c129be591b2804f774a4ea Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Jim, Many thanks for your comments. You are obviously more skilled than I am. I would very much like to have a copy of your results. I will send you my E-mail address. Best wishes, Happy Easter, Harry, G3MFW On 20 April 2014 01:34, hvanesce wrote: > > > Harry, > > > > I found your paper most interesting, including two of your observations i= n > particular (I=E2=80=99ll mention the two observations in a separate messa= ge). I=E2=80=99m > interested in VLF phenomenology for its own sake, and for its potential > merit in DX. Your observations address some aspects of the near field > regarding which useful data is scarce, and which I think could ultimately > assist amateur VLF communications (wherein antennas are electrically smal= l, > and particularly influenced by near-field characteristics). > > > > I wonder if the following would interest you: > > > > I ran a number of 8.9kHz tests at ~100W PA out, taking calibrated > signal-strength data at roughly logarithmically spaced TX-to-RX distances > from ~ 1m to ~ 12km. I used loop antennas for these tests, with TX loop > diameters from 1m to 70m, with horizontal and vertical orientation of the > TX loop axes*, and one buried TX loop; and many (x, y, z) orientations of > the RX loop antenna. I was unsuccessful in making measurements at 20km an= d > beyond, in part because my RX bandwidth was at that time limited to ~10mH= z > min, and I did not employ impulse noise cancellation. The interesting par= t: > while my antennas and local environment were considerably different from > yours, I was surprised and very interested when reading your report, to s= ee > some correspondence in observations. > > > > Would you be interested in the data from these tests? The data and notes > are handwritten, but I have always intended to capture in > Excel/Mathcad/Matlab form with tables and plots, and having seen your > observations, I=E2=80=99m particularly interested in making 3D plots of t= he two > characteristics to which I referred above, which include the infrastructu= re > measurements** and max-range measurements. > > > > If you=E2=80=99re interested, I=E2=80=99d be happy to post the data and p= lots next week > (I=E2=80=99ll need to figure out how to post; a member of this group sent= info on > that so I will search for it). > > > > Thanks also to Stefan and Eddie for facilitating the presentation and > discussion of Harry=E2=80=99s findings. > > > > * I did not orient the 70m diameter loop axis horizontally (i.e. I did no= t > orient the plane of the loop vertically), but I can orient it at angles > from vertical of up to ~ 45 degrees > > ** For example, at RX locations near streets, I occasionally measured the > field angle and amplitude as a function of horizontal and vertical distan= ce > from the curb. Streets ranged from suburban to desert-mountain, and I was > quite interested to see some correspondence between our measurements. > > > > 73, Jim AA5BW > > > > > > *From:* owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto: > owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] *On Behalf Of *Harry Woodhouse > *Sent:* Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:40 AM > *To:* rsgb_lf_group > *Subject:* Re: LF: Ground Tests at 8.9KHz > > > > Hi Stefan, > > Many thanks for your comments. > > Harry G3MFW > > > > On 18 April 2014 18:48, g3zjo wrote: > > On 18/04/2014 17:08, DK7FC wrote: > > Thanks to Harry and you for sharing the link to this most intersting > experiments. I've been reading it carefully. It motivates myselfe to thin= k > a bit more about VLF experiments :-) > Please forward him my compliments if the other adress is not his. > > > > Hi Stefan > > I am glad you appreciated the link and Harry's work. He will see your > comments as he is a member of this Group. > > My involvement came in after I suggested to Harry that he popped his writ= e > up on the cloud, he asked me to handle that as he was happier knocking ro= ds > into the ground.:-) > > 73 Eddie > > > --001a11c129be591b2804f774a4ea Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Jim,

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many thanks for your comments. You are obviousl= y more skilled than I am. I would very much like to have a copy of your res= ults. I will send you my E-mail address.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Best wishes,
=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Happy Easter,
=
=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Harry, G3MFW


On 20 April 2014 01:34, hvanesce <hvanesce@comcast.net> w= rote:

=C2=A0

Harry,

=C2=A0

I found your paper = most interesting, including two of your observations in particular (I=E2=80= =99ll mention the two observations in a separate message). I=E2=80=99m inte= rested in VLF phenomenology for its own sake, and for its potential merit i= n DX. Your observations address some aspects of the near field regarding wh= ich useful data is scarce, and which I think could ultimately assist amateu= r VLF communications (wherein antennas are electrically small, and particul= arly influenced by near-field characteristics).

=C2=A0

I wonder if the fol= lowing would interest you:

=C2=A0

I ran a number of 8= .9kHz tests at ~100W PA out, taking calibrated signal-strength data at roug= hly logarithmically spaced TX-to-RX distances from ~ 1m to ~ 12km. I used l= oop antennas for these tests, with TX loop diameters from 1m to 70m, with h= orizontal and vertical orientation of the TX loop axes*, and one buried TX = loop; and many (x, y, z) orientations of the RX loop antenna. I was unsucce= ssful in making measurements at 20km and beyond, in part because my RX band= width was at that time limited to ~10mHz min, and I did not employ impulse = noise cancellation. The interesting part: while my antennas and local envir= onment were considerably different from yours, I was surprised and very int= erested when reading your report, to see some correspondence in observation= s.

=C2=A0

Would you be intere= sted in the data from these tests? The data and notes are handwritten, but = I have always intended to capture in Excel/Mathcad/Matlab form with tables = and plots, and having seen your observations, I=E2=80=99m particularly inte= rested in making 3D plots of the two characteristics to which I referred ab= ove, which include the infrastructure measurements** and max-range measurem= ents.

=C2=A0

If you=E2=80=99re i= nterested, I=E2=80=99d be happy to post the data and plots next week (I=E2= =80=99ll need to figure out how to post; a member of this group sent info o= n that so I will search for it).

=C2=A0

Thanks also to Stef= an and Eddie for facilitating the presentation and discussion of Harry=E2= =80=99s findings. =C2=A0

=C2=A0

* I did not orient = the 70m diameter loop axis horizontally (i.e. I did not orient the plane of= the loop vertically), but I can orient it at angles from vertical of up to= ~ 45 degrees

** For example, at RX loc= ations near streets, I occasionally measured the field angle and amplitude = as a function of horizontal and vertical distance from the curb. Streets ra= nged from suburban to desert-mountain, and I was quite interested to see so= me correspondence between our measurements. =C2=A0=C2=A0

=C2=A0

73, Jim AA5BW

=C2=A0

=C2=A0

From: owner-rsgb= _lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org] <= b>On Behalf Of Harry Woodhouse
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 1:40 AM
To: rsgb_lf_groupSubject: Re: LF: Ground Tests at 8.9KHz

=C2=A0

Hi Stefan,<= /u>

=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Many thanks fo= r your comments.

=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0= =C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 Harry G3MFW=

=C2=A0

On 18 April 2014 1= 8:48, g3zjo <g= 3zjo@psk31.plus.com> wrote:

On 18/04/2014 17:08, DK7FC wrote:=

Thanks to Harry and you for sharing the link to = this most intersting experiments. I've been reading it carefully. It mo= tivates myselfe to think a bit more about VLF experiments :-)
Please forward him my compliments if the other adress is not his.=

=C2=A0

Hi Stefan

I am glad you appr= eciated the link and Harry's work. He will see your comments as he is a= member of this Group.

My involvement came in after I suggested to Harry that he popped his wr= ite up on the cloud, he asked me to handle that as he was happier knocking = rods into the ground.:-)

73 Eddie

=C2=A0

--001a11c129be591b2804f774a4ea--