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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Alan; Do you think there will be nights of skywave propagation as low as 30 kHz? Without it I don't see my .1 w ERP going anywhere close. BTW; I have a BC engineer friend about 30 miles from here. He could barely hear my fundamental signal and said 60 kHz is S9 at his QTH. I measured my second harmonic-appears about -60 db down- at 58.998. I will have a 60 kHz clock tomorrow to seen if any cal trouble right here at transmitter location-Bob [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.14 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rjraide[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 49fa89cf822be04b2fa2b49be302a189 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_a9ec71ed-ac89-4c03-97dd-e9442827ed65_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNSAFE,HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --_a9ec71ed-ac89-4c03-97dd-e9442827ed65_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan=3B Do you think there will be nights of skywave propagation as low as 30 kHz? = Without it I don't see my .1 w ERP going anywhere close. BTW=3B I have a BC engineer friend about 30 miles from here. He could barely hear= my fundamental signal and said 60 kHz is S9 at his QTH. I measured my second harmonic-appears about -60 db down- at 58.998. =20 I will have a 60 kHz clock tomorrow to seen if any cal trouble right here a= t transmitter location-Bob =20 From: alan.melia@btinternet.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat=2C 1 Mar 2014 18:12:48 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2XBA =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary" is just the =0A= point at which the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different mo= des =0A= that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as effective. =0A= Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz. =0A= =0A= It may be of interest that Paul Nicholson has put a =0A= web front end to the LWPC propagation code=0A= http://abelian.org/lwpc/ This gives =0A= reasonable results up to around 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and it = gives =0A= quite sensible answers.=0A= =0A= Alan =0A= G3NYK=0A= =0A= ----- Original Message ----- =0A= From: =0A= Warren Ziegler =0A= =0A= To: rsgb_lf_group =0A= Sent: Saturday=2C March 01=2C 2014 3:54 =0A= PM=0A= Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License =0A= WH2XBA=0A= =20 =0A= Hi Alan=2C=0A= =20 =0A= I agree=2C there was nothing that I could find that =0A= indicated that there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even checked with a w= ell =0A= known vlf expert who has done design work for some of the BIG military vl= f =0A= systems. Somewhere around 70kHz there is a transitional area between wave= guide =0A= modes applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at higher =0A= frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz I believe explains= the =0A= deep fading there as the modes constructively and destructively =0A= interfere.=0A= However=2C it didn't hurt to ask for the additional =0A= frequencies as Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to get on 45k= Hz =0A= within hours of the license being issued!=0A= =20 =0A= =20 =0A= 73 Warren K2ORS=0A= =20 =0A= =20 =0A= On Sat=2C Mar 1=2C 2014 at 10:40 AM=2C Alan Melia wrote: =0A= =0A= =0A= Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly different =0A= for propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd harmonic tra= shing =0A= WWVB clock synchronisation over a substantial area though=2C bearing in= mind =0A= the receivers are very simple.........and most only try to sync around = =0A= midnight.=0A= =0A= Alan=0A= G3NYK.=0A= =0A= ----- Original Message ----- =0A= From: Warren =0A= Ziegler =0A= To: rsgb_lf_group =0A= =0A= Sent: Saturday=2C March 01=2C 2014 3:17 =0A= PM=0A= Subject: LF: U.S. VLF License =0A= WH2XBA=0A= =20 =0A= =0A= =0A= Hello the list=2C=0A= =20 =0A= Several questions have come up concerning the WH2XBA =0A= grant and I thought I might address them here. Bob W2ZM contacted me= =0A= about applying for a grant at the top end of the vlf range (just belo= w =0A= 30kHz).=0A= The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a bit less =0A= challenging than the low end below 9kHz (which is unregulated).=0A= =20 =0A= Some of the usual suspects expressed interest so they =0A= were added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - Jim and I have a mutu= al =0A= friend through work - Jim is highly capable and technical and has = =0A= multiple sites throughout the country. There was some concern that = =0A= the frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to propagation reaso= ns =0A= and some thought it might be good to go a bit higher=2C hence the 27-= 59kHz =0A= range=2C leaving clearance for WWVB at the top end. =0A= =20 =0A= The license is for 5W ERP=2C 27-59kHz=2C CW and every =0A= data mode that I could think of.=0A= =20 =0A= The application was filed on January 29 and the license =0A= issued on February 27 - this was despite some Federal Holidays and = =0A= closings due to blizzards! So I suspect that it didn't raise too =0A= many questions.=0A= =20 =0A= The stations are:=0A= WH2XBA/1 Bob =0A= W2ZM=0A= WH2XBA/2 Warren =0A= K2ORS=0A= WH2XBA/3 Jay =0A= W1VD=0A= WH2XBA/4 Dex =0A= W4DEX=0A= WH2XBA/5 Laurence =0A= KL1L =0A= WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW=0A= =0A= =20 =0A= WH2XBA Grant Attached.=0A= =20 =0A= 73 Warren K2ORS=0A= =20 --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =0A= WD2XGJ=20 =0A= WD2XSH/23 =0A= WE2XEB/2 =0A= WE2XGR/1 =0A= =0A= WG2XRS/1=0A= =0A= WH2XBA/2 =0A= =20 =0A= =20 --=20 73 Warren K2ORS =0A= WD2XGJ=20 =0A= WD2XSH/23 =0A= WE2XEB/2 =0A= WE2XGR/1 = --_a9ec71ed-ac89-4c03-97dd-e9442827ed65_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alan=3B
Do you think there wi= ll be nights of skywave propagation as low as 30 kHz? =3B Without it I = don't see my .1 w ERP going anywhere close.
BTW=3B
I have a BC engine= er friend about 30 miles from here. =3B =3BHe could barely hear my = fundamental signal and said 60 kHz is S9 at his QTH.
I measured my secon= d harmonic-appears about =3B-60 db down- at 58.998. =3B =3B
= I will have a 60 kHz clock tomorrow to seen if any cal trouble right here a= t transmitter location-Bob
 =3B
From= : alan.melia@btinternet.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sa= t=2C 1 Mar 2014 18:12:48 +0000
Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License WH2= XBA

=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Hi Warren I think the 70kHz "boundary"= is just the =0A= point at which the Earth-Ionosphere waveguide supports so many different mo= des =0A= that the modelling becomes difficult and the ray path is as effective. = =3B =0A= Even this transition is fuzzy and is often quoted as low as 50kHz. <= /div>=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
It may be of interest that Paul Nichol= son has put a =0A= web front end to the LWPC propagation code
=0A=
http://abelian.org/lwpc/ =3B This gives =0A= reasonable results up to around 45kHz. I have done some tests on it and it = gives =0A= quite sensible answers.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Alan
=0A=
G3NYK
=0A=
=0A=
----- Original Message -----
=0A=
From: =0A= Warren Zie= gler =0A=
=0A= =0A=
Sent: Saturday=2C March 01=2C 2014 3:54 =0A= PM
=0A=
Subject: Re: LF: Re: U.S. VLF License =0A= WH2XBA
=0A=

=0A=
Hi Alan=2C=0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B  =3B I agree=2C there was nothing that I could= find that =0A= indicated that there would be a problem at 30kHz. I even checked with a w= ell =0A= known vlf expert who has done design work for some of the BIG military vl= f =0A= systems. Somewhere around 70kHz there is a transitional area between wave= guide =0A= modes applicable at vlf and ray-tracing which is applicable at higher =0A= frequencies. The increased number of modes above 70kHz I believe explains= the =0A= deep fading there as the modes constructively and destructively =0A= interfere.
=0A=
 =3B  =3BHowever=2C it didn't hurt to ask for the additional= =0A= frequencies as Dex was able to use an existing loading coil to get on 45k= Hz =0A= within hours of the license being issued!
=0A=

=0A=

=0A=
73 Warren K2ORS
=0A=

=0A=


=0A=
On Sat=2C Mar 1=2C 2014 at 10:40 AM=2C Alan= Melia <=3Balan.melia@btinternet.com>=3B wrote:
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Hi Warren I cant see30kHz being particularly = different =0A= for propgation in that part of the spectrum. I can see 2nd harmonic tra= shing =0A= WWVB clock synchronisation over a substantial area though=2C bearing in= mind =0A= the receivers are very simple.........and most only try to sync around = =0A= midnight.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Alan
=0A=
G3NYK.
=0A=
=0A=
----- Original Message -----
=0A=
From: <= a title=3D"wd2xgj@gmail.com" href=3D"mailto:wd2xgj@gmail.com" target=3D"_bl= ank">Warren =0A= Ziegler
=0A=
To: rsgb_lf_gro= up =0A=
=0A=
Sent: Saturday=2C March 01=2C 2014 3:17 =0A= PM
=0A=
Subject: LF: U.S. VLF License =0A= WH2XBA
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
Hello the list=2C
=0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B Several questions have come up concerning the = WH2XBA =0A= grant and I thought I might address them here.  =3BBob W2ZM conta= cted me =0A= about applying for a grant at the top end of the vlf range (just belo= w =0A= 30kHz).
=0A=
The thought was that the high end of vlf would be a bit less =0A= challenging than the low end below 9kHz (which is unregulated).
= =0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B Some of the usual suspects expressed interest = so they =0A= were added to the application. Also Jim AA5BW - Jim and I have a mutu= al =0A= friend through work - Jim is highly capable and  =3Btechnical and= has =0A= multiple sites throughout the country.  =3B There was some concer= n that =0A= the frequencies around 30kHz were unoccupied due to propagation reaso= ns =0A= and some thought it might be good to go a bit higher=2C hence the 27-= 59kHz =0A= range=2C leaving clearance for WWVB at the top end. =3B
=0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B  =3BThe license is for 5W ERP=2C 27-59kHz= =2C CW and every =0A= data mode that I could think of.
=0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B The application was filed on January 29 and th= e license =0A= issued on February 27 - this was despite some Federal Holidays and = =0A= closings due to blizzards!  =3BSo I suspect that it didn't raise = too =0A= many questions.
=0A=

=0A=
 =3B  =3B  =3BThe stations are:
=0A=
WH2XBA/1  =3B  =3B Bob =0A= W2ZM
=0A=
WH2XBA/2  =3B Warren =0A= K2ORS
=0A=
WH2XBA/3  =3B  =3B Jay =0A= W1VD
=0A=
WH2XBA/4  =3B  =3B Dex =0A=  =3BW4DEX
=0A=
WH2XBA/5  =3B Laurence =0A= KL1L =3B
=0A=
WH2XBA/6 /7 /8 etc etc James Plesa AA5BW
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=

=0A=
WH2XBA Grant Attached.
=0A=

=0A=
73 Warren K2ORS
=0A=

--
73 Warren K2ORS
 =3B  =3B  =3B &= nbsp=3B =0A=  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B WD2XGJ
 =3B  =3B &nbs= p=3B  =3B  =3B =0A=  =3B  =3B  =3B WD2XSH/23
 =3B  =3B  =3B &n= bsp=3B  =3B =0A=  =3B  =3B  =3B WE2XEB/2
 =3B  =3B  =3B &nb= sp=3B  =3B  =3B =0A=  =3B  =3B WE2XGR/1 =0A=
 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B &= nbsp=3B =0A= WG2XRS/1
=0A=
 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B &= nbsp=3B =0A= WH2XBA/2

 =3B =0A=


=0A=

--
73 Warren K2ORS
 =3B  =3B  =3B  = =3B  =3B =0A=  =3B  =3B  =3B WD2XGJ
 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B=  =3B  =3B =0A=  =3B  =3B WD2XSH/23
 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  = =3B  =3B  =3B =0A=  =3B WE2XEB/2
 =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  =3B  = =3B  =3B  =3B =0A= WE2XGR/1

 =3B
= --_a9ec71ed-ac89-4c03-97dd-e9442827ed65_--