Delivered-To: daveyxm@virginmedia.com Received: by 10.50.203.68 with SMTP id ko4csp39847igc; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 16:28:20 -0700 (PDT) X-Received: by 10.180.109.231 with SMTP id hv7mr3463394wib.38.1396135699206; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 16:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com. [195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id 1si1580784wjp.7.2014.03.29.16.28.18 for ; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 16:28:19 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WU2HE-000339-QY for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 23:03:00 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WU2HE-000330-2V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 23:03:00 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s7.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.18]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WU2HB-000179-8V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Mar 2014 23:02:58 +0000 Received: from BLU180-W53 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s7.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 29 Mar 2014 16:02:54 -0700 X-TMN: [Liq+C5MKIPmPhkXDLmCgHcsBieuqWa7X] X-Originating-Email: [rjraide@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Bob Raide To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2014 19:02:54 -0400 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <43AA6D08247842058A49BCA793E7BF18@White> References: ,<7ED357143A1943C88C092049CD10E3D1@White> ,<43AA6D08247842058A49BCA793E7BF18@White> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 29 Mar 2014 23:02:54.0956 (UTC) FILETIME=[04D082C0:01CF4BA3] X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Markus; I know it would be a challenge. I like the T/A with at least OPDS detects. Never expected to be so easy to do that. Still would like to stay focused on getting a better signal and hope for some better receivers out there. 29 VLF has some very steady predictable characteristics that the higher freqs don't have. There isn't the fading and if it's cold out it propagates really well and there are steady signals to work with. I am sure there will be lots of work done on 8.2 on both sides of the pond and am not going to be surprised to see you and Stefan getting together for a serious attempt. Wouldn't that vacation spot you have on that island off the African Coast be something? But, there is a clear reason freqs below 8.2 are not regulated. Not much use for anything other than sending an unkeyed carrier! I am sure Paul would be very capable as you also would be, in receiving an 8 hour carrier. I have the white polypro buckets-if I run into a mile of #26 wire I would probably have to put fire to that wire! BTW; How did you do with your limited ant and rig on 8.2? I know Stefan was a bit disappointed with his results and was working on generating a strong third harmonic to get up a bit in freq- out of no mans land! [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.18 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rjraide[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 1723994b96364fbc892cb8d93e13abcb Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_e11c4aac-0369-481e-8fb3-b6588b5510d8_" Subject: RE: LF: Re: Bunch of detects! X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --_e11c4aac-0369-481e-8fb3-b6588b5510d8_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Markus=3B I know it would be a challenge. I like the T/A with at least OPDS detects.= Never expected to be so easy to do that. Still would like to stay focuse= d on getting a better signal and hope for some better receivers out there. = 29 VLF has some very steady predictable characteristics that the higher fr= eqs don't have. There isn't the fading and if it's cold out it propagates = really well and there are steady signals to work with. I am sure there will be lots of work done on 8.2 on both sides of the pond = and am not going to be surprised to see you and Stefan getting together for= a serious attempt. Wouldn't that vacation spot you have on that island of= f the African Coast be something? But=2C there is a clear reason freqs below 8.2 are not regulated. Not much= use for anything other than sending an unkeyed carrier! I am sure Paul wo= uld be very capable as you also would be=2C in receiving an 8 hour carrier.= I have the white polypro buckets-if I run into a mile of #26 wire I would= probably have to put fire to that wire! BTW=3B How did you do with your= limited ant and rig on 8.2? I know Stefan was a bit disappointed with his = results and was working on generating a strong third harmonic to get up a b= it in freq- out of no mans land! =20 Bob =20 From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat=2C 29 Mar 2014 23:20:26 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Bunch of detects! =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Bob=2C well I guess I'm sort if lucky on 29.5 as =0A= there happens to be little QRM here from big utility stations=2C railway=2C= etc. =0A= Even local QRM has been scarce (though I hardly dare write that=2C as =0A= one of our twenty-odd neighbour families may any time corrupt the frequency= by a =0A= nasty SMPS / battery charger / energy saving lamp / modem / you name it). = =0A= Extrapolating received Opds-2H levels to QRSS would result in needing =0A= something like 10 minute dots=2C so not really encouraging.=0A= =0A= Regarding 8.3 kHz: I guess everyone working there =0A= is limited by antenna voltage / corona=2C and as you say usually not much p= ower is =0A= needed to get to that limit. Assuming same voltage capability (eg 30 kV)=2C= =0A= going down from 29.5 to 8.3 you'll need to reduce current by a factor of = =0A= 3.5=2C decreasing ERP by 22 dB. On the other hand=2C Paul Nicholson was abl= e to =0A= resolve your 2-minute dots on 29.5=2C thus in a quiet night=2C an 8 hour co= ntinuous =0A= carrier on 8270 might just become detectable in Todmorden. In =0A= addition=2C Paul's http://abelian.org/vlf/ lists =0A= several online VLF receivers sending high quality audio streams=2C and I = =0A= reckon a reception eg by Mike Smith in Forest / Virginia would be quite =0A= likely and good DX for starters. =0A= =0A= 73=2C=0A= Markus (DF6NM)=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= From: Bob Raide =0A= Sent: Saturday=2C March 29=2C 2014 8:26 PM=0A= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A= =0A= Subject: RE: LF: Re: Bunch of detects!=0A= =0A= Markus=3B 29 is about it for me. I like to see some of the =0A= other modes get detected but so far just not enough signal for any real QRS= S =0A= from like Henny=2C and Hartmut. Your OPDS sure works but many still have = =0A= work to do to get detections at -52 or so. What QRSS speed would I need = =0A= for you to get a decent capture on 29 QRSS??? OP2HDS is going to be hard to= =0A= beat. The OPERA DS detects have been very impressive from your QTH and you =0A= are in amongst other houses! Others have for the time being stopped work = =0A= on VLF reception. Hope next season there will be improvements in that =0A= area. If I could run enough power on 9 kHz I would try it but I see very =0A= nasty voltages being generated with this short ant. I'll go back to 29 =0A= tomorrow night with OP2H and hope for another detection from you and maybe = =0A= someone else T/A. Your the furthest European other than the Russians so = =0A= should see others with detections sooner or later I would =0A= think-Bob =20 =20 =0A= =0A= =0A= From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat=2C 29 =0A= Mar 2014 20:04:44 +0100 Subject: LF: Re: Bunch of detects! =0A= =0A= =0A= Bob=2C=0A= =0A= thanks for the signal=2C nice to find all =0A= those good detections!=0A= =0A= Tomorrow? Swing low! For me=2C the =0A= lower and slower=2C the better. And give the Opera guys a chance for a =0A= TA decode on 29.5 kHz =3B-)=0A= =0A= Actually=2C why not go sub 8.3 kHz one =0A= night=2C and provide a fair challenge to Paul Nicholson. All you'll =0A= need to do is wind up a couple of kilometers of =0A= thin magnet wire (say AWG26) on a plastic bucket =3B-)=0A= =0A= Have a good weekend=2C=0A= =0A= 73=2C Markus=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= From: Bob Raide =0A= Sent: Saturday=2C March 29=2C 2014 4:48 PM=0A= To: Markus Vester =3B rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =3B Bob Raide =0A= Subject: Bunch of detects!=0A= =0A= Markus=3B Was easy to find clear spot with your grabber. =0A= Condx seemed good and made a bunch of detects I see!=20 Will do again tonight =0A= same freq. If you want-maybe tomorrow try 74 or back to VLF 29kHz if =0A= you want-Bob = --_e11c4aac-0369-481e-8fb3-b6588b5510d8_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Markus=3B
I know it would be = a challenge. =3B I like the T/A with at least OPDS detects. =3B Nev= er expected to be so easy to do that. =3B =3BStill would like to st= ay =3Bfocused on getting a better signal and hope for some better recei= vers out there. =3B =3B29 VLF has some very steady predictable char= acteristics that the higher freqs don't have. =3B There isn't the fadin= g and if it's cold out it propagates really well and there are steady signa= ls to work with.
I am sure there will be lots of work done on 8.2 on&nbs= p=3Bboth sides of the pond =3Band am not going to be surprised to see y= ou =3Band Stefan getting together for a serious attempt. =3B Wouldn= 't that vacation spot you have on that island off the African Coast be some= thing?
But=2C there is a clear =3Breason freqs below 8.2 are not reg= ulated. =3B Not much use for anything other than sending an unkeyed car= rier! =3B I am sure Paul would be very capable as you also would be=2C = in receiving an 8 hour carrier. =3B I have the white polypro buckets-if= I run into a mile of #26 wire =3BI would probably have to put fire to = that wire! =3B =3B BTW=3B =3B How did you do with your limited = ant and rig on 8.2? I know Stefan was a bit disappointed with his results a= nd was working on generating a strong third harmonic to get up a bit in fre= q- out of no mans land!
 =3B
 =3BBob
 =3B
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Date: Sat=2C 29 Mar 2014 23:20:26 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: Re: = Bunch of detects!

=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Bob=2C well I guess I'm sort if lucky = on 29.5 as =0A= there happens to be little QRM here from big utility stations=2C railway=2C= etc. =0A= Even local QRM has been =3Bscarce (though =3BI hardly dare write th= at=2C as =0A= one of our twenty-odd neighbour families may any time corrupt the frequency= by a =0A= nasty SMPS / battery charger / energy saving lamp / modem / you name it). = =0A= Extrapolating received Opds-2H levels =3Bto QRSS would result in needin= g =0A= something like 10 minute dots=2C so =3Bnot really encouraging.=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Regarding 8.3 kHz: I guess everyone wo= rking there =0A= is limited by antenna voltage / corona=2C and as you say usually not much p= ower is =0A= needed to get to that limit. =3BAssuming same voltage capability (eg 30= kV)=2C =0A= going down from 29.5 to 8.3 you'll need to reduce current by a factor of = =0A= 3.5=2C =3Bdecreasing ERP by 22 dB. On the other hand=2C Paul Nicholson = was able to =0A= resolve your 2-minute dots on 29.5=2C thus in a quiet night=2C an 8 hour co= ntinuous =0A= carrier on 8270 might =3Bjust become detectable in =3BTodmorden. In= =0A= addition=2C Paul's = http://abelian.org/vlf/ lists =0A= several =3Bonline VLF receivers sending high quality audio streams=2C a= nd I =0A= reckon a reception eg by Mike Smith in =3BForest / Virginia would be qu= ite =0A= likely and =3Bgood DX for starters. =3B =3B
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
73=2C
=0A=
Markus (DF6NM)
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
From: Bob Raide=
=0A=
Sent: Saturday=2C March 29=2C 2014 8:26 PM
=0A= =0A=
Subject: RE: LF: Re: Bunch of detects!
=0A=

=0A=
Markus=3B
29 is about it for me. =3B I like to see = some of the =0A= other modes get detected but so far just not enough signal for any real QRS= S =0A= from like Henny=2C and Hartmut. =3B Your OPDS sure works but many still= have =0A= work to do to get detections at -52 or so. =3B What QRSS speed would I = need =0A= for you to get a decent capture on 29 QRSS??? =3BOP2HDS is going to be = hard to =0A= beat.
The OPERA DS detects have been very impressive from your QTH and y= ou =0A= are in amongst other houses! =3B Others have for the time being stopped= work =0A= on VLF reception. =3B Hope next season there will be improvements in th= at =0A= area.
If I could run enough power on 9 =3BkHz I would try it but I s= ee very =0A= nasty voltages being generated with this short ant.
I'll go back to 29 = =0A= tomorrow night with OP2H and hope for another detection from you and maybe = =0A= someone else T/A. =3B Your the furthest European other than the Russian= s so =0A= should see others with detections sooner or later =3BI would =0A= think-Bob =3B =3B
 =3B
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Sat= =2C 29 =0A= Mar 2014 20:04:44 +0100
Subject: LF: Re: Bunch of detects!

=0A= =0A= =0A=
Bob=2C
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
thanks =3Bfor the signal=2C nice t= o find =3Ball =0A= those good detections!
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Tomorrow? =3BSwing low! =3BFor= me=2C =3Bthe =0A= lower and slower=2C the better. =3BAnd give the Opera =3Bguys a cha= nce for a =0A= TA decode on 29.5 kHz =3B-)
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Actually=2C =3Bwhy not go sub = =3B8.3 kHz =3Bone =0A= night=2C =3Band provide a fair challenge =3Bto Paul Nicholson. = =3BAll you'll =0A= need to do is =3Bwind up =3Ba couple of kilometers of =0A= thin =3Bmagnet =3Bwire (say AWG26) on =3Ba plastic bucket =3B-)=
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Have a good weekend=2C
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
73=2C Markus
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
From: Bob Raide=
=0A=
Sent: Saturday=2C March 29=2C 2014 4:48 PM
=0A= =0A=
Subject: Bunch of detects!
=0A=

=0A=
Markus=3B
Was easy to find clear spot with your grabber= . =3B =0A= Condx seemed good and made a bunch of detects I see!
Will do again toni= ght =0A= same freq.
If you want-maybe tomorrow try 74 =3B or back to VLF 29kH= z if =0A= you want-Bob
= --_e11c4aac-0369-481e-8fb3-b6588b5510d8_--