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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id fb9si7696288wjc.40.2014.03.09.12.46.21 for ; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 12:46:21 -0700 (PDT) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WMj7v-0005od-V6 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:11:11 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WMj7v-0005oU-CV for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:11:11 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s8.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.19]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.82) (envelope-from ) id 1WMj7s-0002Py-K6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Mar 2014 19:11:10 +0000 Received: from BLU177-W42 ([65.55.116.7]) by blu0-omc1-s8.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sun, 9 Mar 2014 12:11:06 -0700 X-TMN: [mYKMdHRlwHREQYkX4KeJcmTyGuOmy8zV] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Laurence KL7 L To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Sun, 9 Mar 2014 11:11:06 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <023F5ED8BC044897ACDC94AEECD5F1D0@White> References: <016101cf39df$4f4c89a0$ede59ce0$@comcast.net>, <01dc01cf3a3f$86997bb0$93cc7310$@comcast.net>, <2FC5CAB271A6437CB35A5B100185CEDA@White> <025101cf3a52$e0925750$a1b705f0$@comcast.net> <7DB9DD5669FC4C648838510DCAC08AFB@White> <531A506E.9040103@abelian.org> <531A5C19.9060209@abelian.org> <02ba01cf3aa3$debaad50$9c3007f0$@comcast.net> <531AF126.2060600@abelian.org> <850A470A5B9F4483BED8B49D4791044A@White>,<531B1D0C.3070208@abelian.org> ,<531B4E01.7000304@abelian.org> <039f01cf3b72$bfa1db80$3ee59280$@comcast.net> <76F90E9771CA44F3981F679241E1A005@White> <03ca01cf3b92$eea24670$cbe6d350$@comcast.net> <008b01cf3bac$c9568ce0$6401a8c0@JAYDELL>,<023F5ED8BC044897ACDC94AEECD5F1D0@White> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 09 Mar 2014 19:11:06.0568 (UTC) FILETIME=[5281EC80:01CF3BCB] X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Jay - these plots are intriguing -perhaps Im reading the graphs wrong and should turn the pages upside down :-) I got to say I never see WWVB signals at the levels indicated for Anchorage but of course I have to deal with JJY too co-channel which do reaches these levels -hmm... and if I compare signal to noise wise for the average Joe not a lot of people buy WWVB locked devices as they just dont work up here. See http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/vb-coverage.cfm we never go Red, and notice the affect of the Rockies etc [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.19 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hellozerohellozero[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: 8c16534bff9e7be1d3e99d60b0efbf3e Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f42fe2a0-58cf-421d-a2c4-5eaf806f776e_" Subject: RE: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz - ice and all X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --_f42fe2a0-58cf-421d-a2c4-5eaf806f776e_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay - these plots are intriguing -perhaps Im reading the graphs wrong and = should turn the pages upside down :-) I got to say I never see WWVB signal= s at the levels indicated for Anchorage but of course I have to deal with J= JY too co-channel which do reaches these levels -hmm... and if I compare s= ignal to noise wise for the average Joe not a lot of people buy WWVB locked= devices as they just dont work up here. See http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688= /grp40/vb-coverage.cfm we never go Red=2C and notice the affect of the Roc= kies etc =20 What with VLF phase changes of Polar ice caps and perma frost causing highe= r loss modal paths=2C reflections from Mountain ranges causing standing wav= es=2C Moon/Sun tidal losses=2C effects from Red Sprites=2C Solar Proton eve= nts=2C Man kind globally causing VLF background noise increase and more so = during the work week=2C high modal losses East West Im surprised I see any= thing here...(grin) =20 There are a lot of papers out there on VLF profiling over various grounds= =2C some interesting facts on reflection coefficients' on vertical incident= s of VLF waves into glaciated areas etc.....and a lot more. =20 I think someone mentioned Siple2 and its VLF dipole - Siple was about 3400f= t ASL but I cant recall if the actual continental land mass is pushed lower= cos of the weight of the ice =3D in any case most of what I can recall was= my breakfast cutlery and the kitchen utensils humming musically whilst Jup= iter was running - I was surprised it didnt drive the guys mad who were sta= tioned there all the time... =20 No sign of /1 yesterday=2C well not a clear one - I did get a straight line= of a few pixels just pre sun down here but thats all. =20 Laurence KL7 L et al =20 =20 =20 From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun=2C 9 Mar 2014 16:46:16 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Jay=2C are these plots based on measurement or =0A= simulation? 73=2C Markus=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= From: jrusgrove@comcast.net =0A= Sent: Sunday=2C March 09=2C 2014 4:32 PM=0A= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A= =0A= Subject: Re: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz=0A= =0A= While not VLF=2C WWVB at 60 kHz shows no significant =0A= difference in signal level at various receiving locations summer vs. winter= . =0A= =0A= =0A= http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummersig.jpg=0A= =0A= As expected though=2C SNR is better in =0A= winter.=0A= =0A= http://www.w1vd.com/WWVBwintersummersnr.jpg=0A= =0A= Hard to believe things would be vastly different at =0A= 30 kHz ... but suppose anything is possible. =0A= =0A= =0A= Jay W1VD WD2XNS WE2XGR/2 =0A= WG2XRS/2=0A= =0A= = --_f42fe2a0-58cf-421d-a2c4-5eaf806f776e_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jay - these plots are intriguing=  =3B -perhaps Im reading the graphs wrong and should turn the pages ups= ide down =3B:-)  =3BI got to say I never see =3BWWVB signals at= the levels indicated for =3BAnchorage but of course I have to =3Bd= eal with JJY too =3Bco-channel which do reaches these levels =3B-hm= m...  =3Band if I compare signal to noise =3Bwise for the =3Bav= erage Joe not a lot of people buy WWVB locked devices as they just dont wor= k up here. See http://www.nist.gov/pml/div688/grp40/vb-coverage.cfm =3B we ne= ver go Red=2C and notice the affect of the Rockies etc
 =3B
What&= nbsp=3Bwith VLF =3Bphase changes of Polar ice caps and perma frost caus= ing higher loss modal paths=2C reflections from Mountain ranges causing sta= nding waves=2C =3BMoon/Sun tidal losses=2C effects from Red Sprites=2C = Solar Proton events=2C =3BMan kind globally causing VLF background nois= e increase and more so during the work week=2C  =3Bhigh modal losses Ea= st West Im surprised I see anything here...(grin)
 =3B
There are = a lot of =3Bpapers out there on =3BVLF profiling over various = =3Bgrounds=2C some interesting facts on reflection coefficients' on vertica= l incidents =3Bof VLF waves into =3Bglaciated areas etc.....and a l= ot more.
 =3B
I think someone mentioned Siple2 and its VLF dipole= - Siple was about 3400ft ASL but I cant recall if the actual continental l= and mass is pushed lower cos of the weight of the ice =3D in any case most = of what I can recall was my breakfast cutlery and the kitchen utensils humm= ing musically =3Bwhilst Jupiter was running - I was surprised it didnt = drive the guys mad who were stationed there all the time...
 =3B
= No sign of /1 yesterday=2C well not a clear one - I =3Bdid get a straig= ht line of a few pixels just pre sun down here but thats all.
 =3BLaurence KL7 L et al
 =3B
 =3B

 =3B
From: markusvester@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org
Date: Sun=2C 9 Mar 2014 16:46:16 +0100
Subject: Re: LF: Dayti= me 29.499 kHz

=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Jay=2C are these plots based on measur= ement or =0A= simulation? 73=2C Markus
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
=0A= =0A=
Sent: Sunday=2C March 09=2C 2014 4:32 PM
=0A= =0A=
Subject: Re: LF: Daytime 29.499 kHz
=0A=

=0A=
While not VLF=2C WWVB at 60 kHz shows = no significant =0A= difference in signal level at various receiving locations summer vs. winter= . =0A=
=0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A=
As expected though=2C SNR is better in= =0A= winter.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A= =0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Hard to believe things would be vastly= different at =0A= 30 kHz ... but suppose =3Banything is possible. =0A=  =3B =3B =3B
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Jay W1VD =3B WD2XNS =3B WE2XGR= /2 =3B =0A= WG2XRS/2
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
 =3B
=
= --_f42fe2a0-58cf-421d-a2c4-5eaf806f776e_--