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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id lp8si1857207wic.73.2014.02.01.14.50.05 for ; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 14:50:05 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1W9j02-000326-LH for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 22:25:18 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1W9j02-00031x-3i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 22:25:18 +0000 Received: from blu0-omc1-s5.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.16]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1W9j00-0003XP-3m for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Feb 2014 22:25:17 +0000 Received: from BLU405-EAS118 ([65.55.116.8]) by blu0-omc1-s5.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Sat, 1 Feb 2014 14:25:15 -0800 X-TMN: [HYCptpDzMd9YJx6yQs+vJ+G1zmv+rTlR] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: References: <672974DB1A094C33A1AF31AF8CB687FA@gnat> From: Laurence KL7 L MIME-Version: 1.0 (1.0) In-Reply-To: Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 13:25:15 -0900 To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" CC: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" X-OriginalArrivalTime: 01 Feb 2014 22:25:15.0231 (UTC) FILETIME=[7AC7D6F0:01CF1F9C] X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. 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Content preview: What about the D layer acting as a reflective Medium even at MF...be interesting to see if isig max occured at near max Solar illumination at midpoint,,, (per Alan in the past :-)) Laurence > On Feb 1, 2014, at 1:13 PM, "Bob Raide" wrote: > > Alan; > From my broadcast experience and taking field strength measurements-frozen ground can over double the normal warmer weather conductivity which would not be even close to the salt water conductivity of 5000 mmohs per meter of salt water-Bob > > > From: alan.melia@btinternet.com > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 20:08:58 +0000 > > Subject: Re: LF: Ant current > > > > Why? > > I think its possible that frozen ground increases the efficincy of a given > > system, but that same antenna conguration would probably work even better > > still over salt water?? > > > > Alan > > G3NYK > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "C. Groeger" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 3:18 PM > > Subject: Re: LF: Ant current > > > > > > > Thanks for quick reply, Wolf! > > > > > > But then propagation from a mf tx on a ship on sea should be worse then > > > from land? > > > > > > Christian Groeger > > > > > > wolf_dl4yhf schrieb: > > > > > >>Hi Chris, > > >> > > >>By coincidence, I just had to re-adjust the antenna for exactly that > > >>reason: > > >> > > >>The conductivity of water is better, but the 'tangens delta' (loss > > >>factor) of water as dielectric is much worse than that of ice. > > >>So the water "robs" energy in presence of an E-field, which the ice does > > >>not. > > >>Thus the losses around the antenna go up. Depends a lot of the greenery > > >>around the antenna. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >> Wolf DL4YHF . > > >> > > >>Am 01.02.2014 15:51, schrieb C. Groeger: > > >>> Hi all > > >>> How can one explain that ant current rises when soil is frozen? > > >>> > > >>> Conductivity of water should be much higher than that of ice. > > >>> > > >>> So earth resistance would be higher and the current should drop when > > >>> soil is frozen... > > >>> > > >>> 73, df5qg > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Christian Groeger > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > [...] Content analysis details: (-0.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.16 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hellozerohellozero[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 40cd937fc1c5e6338b07d288cd09d087 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail-EA18C40A-7EBC-4775-B15F-A0989AFABC0E" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Subject: Re: LF: Ant current X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.5 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD,HTML_20_30, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false --Apple-Mail-EA18C40A-7EBC-4775-B15F-A0989AFABC0E Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable What about the D layer acting as a reflective Medium even at MF...be interes= ting to see if isig max occured at near max Solar illumination at midpoint,,= , (per Alan in the past :-)) Laurence > On Feb 1, 2014, at 1:13 PM, "Bob Raide" wrote: >=20 > Alan; > =46rom my broadcast experience and taking field strength measurements-froz= en ground can over double the normal warmer weather conductivity which would= not be even close to the salt water conductivity of 5000 mmohs per meter of= salt water-Bob=20 > =20 > > From: alan.melia@btinternet.com > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Date: Sat, 1 Feb 2014 20:08:58 +0000 > > Subject: Re: LF: Ant current > >=20 > > Why? > > I think its possible that frozen ground increases the efficincy of a giv= en=20 > > system, but that same antenna conguration would probably work even bette= r=20 > > still over salt water?? > >=20 > > Alan > > G3NYK > > ----- Original Message -----=20 > > From: "C. Groeger" > > To: > > Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2014 3:18 PM > > Subject: Re: LF: Ant current > >=20 > >=20 > > > Thanks for quick reply, Wolf! > > > > > > But then propagation from a mf tx on a ship on sea should be worse the= n=20 > > > from land? > > > > > > Christian Groeger > > > > > > wolf_dl4yhf schrieb: > > > > > >>Hi Chris, > > >> > > >>By coincidence, I just had to re-adjust the antenna for exactly that=20= > > >>reason: > > >> > > >>The conductivity of water is better, but the 'tangens delta' (loss > > >>factor) of water as dielectric is much worse than that of ice. > > >>So the water "robs" energy in presence of an E-field, which the ice do= es > > >>not. > > >>Thus the losses around the antenna go up. Depends a lot of the greener= y > > >>around the antenna. > > >> > > >>Cheers, > > >> Wolf DL4YHF . > > >> > > >>Am 01.02.2014 15:51, schrieb C. Groeger: > > >>> Hi all > > >>> How can one explain that ant current rises when soil is frozen? > > >>> > > >>> Conductivity of water should be much higher than that of ice. > > >>> > > >>> So earth resistance would be higher and the current should drop when= =20 > > >>> soil is frozen... > > >>> > > >>> 73, df5qg > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Christian Groeger > > >> > > >> > > >=20 > >=20 > >=20 --Apple-Mail-EA18C40A-7EBC-4775-B15F-A0989AFABC0E Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 PGh0bWw+PGhlYWQ+PG1ldGEgaHR0cC1lcXVpdj0iY29udGVudC10eXBlIiBjb250ZW50PSJ0ZXh0 L2h0bWw7IGNoYXJzZXQ9dXRmLTgiPjwvaGVhZD48Ym9keSBkaXI9ImF1dG8iPjxkaXY+V2hhdCBh Ym91dCB0aGUgRCBsYXllciBhY3RpbmcgYXMgYSByZWZsZWN0aXZlIE1lZGl1bSBldmVuIGF0IE1G Li4uYmUgaW50ZXJlc3RpbmcgdG8gc2VlIGlmIGlzaWcgbWF4IG9jY3VyZWQgYXQgbmVhciBtYXgg U29sYXIgaWxsdW1pbmF0aW9uIGF0IG1pZHBvaW50LCwsIChwZXIgQWxhbiBpbiB0aGUgcGFzdCA6 LSkpPC9kaXY+PGRpdj48YnI+PC9kaXY+PGRpdj5MYXVyZW5jZTwvZGl2PjxkaXY+PGJyPk9uIEZl 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