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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id ll10si3841349wjc.79.2014.02.08.04.22.48 for ; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 04:22:49 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1WC5hk-0004WA-EL for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:04:12 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1WC5hj-0004W1-D8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:04:11 +0000 Received: from omr-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.203]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1WC5hf-00070D-W3 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Feb 2014 11:04:10 +0000 Received: from mtaout-mcd01.mx.aol.com (mtaout-mcd01.mx.aol.com [172.26.223.205]) by omr-d06.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 710F6700000BD for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 06:04:05 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-237-152-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.237.152]) by mtaout-mcd01.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 803DA38000087 for ; Sat, 8 Feb 2014 06:04:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <58CFC5FBDEE849528FA7F13A08D122E2@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: Date: Sat, 8 Feb 2014 12:04:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1391857445; bh=H7EemuZijUGEwdz8/AdFBcdfobIyCHsBkJBsD6+2Xw0=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=VsIDVmALAqllcLcAgfs9SHSjXw+XuoGN/5HpS/8L8Fk/sWHa4alhK/Eayux9rlXPh yCldrkiOFrbQU9T0s115uIZwOXBuyuEslSgxtRfNsWit9NkHef1wRksW44h3S0hVo9 TDpriIb6JBsR6pUjARiVGQNc6RaYrY8f5n1+HWAA= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1adfcd52f60f2211f4 X-AOL-IP: 95.91.237.152 X-Spam-Score: -0.5 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Hi Domenico, nothing special, no radials etc.. I've pasted a copy of a recent posting, describing my current LF / VLF antenna and grounding scheme in short words. All the best, Markus (DF6NM) [...] Content analysis details: (-0.5 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.109.203 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.5 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: 6bd672f829af6a22357e8edf5ae2addd Subject: Re: Re: VLF: 8270.002 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF24C5.DA372CC0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.3 required=5.0 tests=HTML_50_60,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF24C5.DA372CC0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Hi Domenico, nothing special, no radials etc.. I've pasted a copy of a recent = posting, describing my current LF / VLF antenna and grounding scheme in = short words.=20 All the best, Markus (DF6NM) PS a web archive for Blacksheep messages would come in handy ;-) From: ing.lindo=20 Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:14 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: Re: VLF: 8270.002 Hello Markus and LF, can we have some info on grounding arrangements on your vlf system? Thanks.=20 Domenico, iz7slz -------- Original message -------- From: Markus Vester=20 Date:08/02/2014 00:08 (GMT+01:00)=20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: Re: VLF: 8270.002=20 Thanks Jim! My antenna's effective height measured at LF is about 9 m. It will be = slightly less at VLF due to increased shielding by trees, my guess is ~ = 8 m, giving 77 microohms radiation resistance. Thus 0.3 amps would = radiate 7 =C2=B5W (EMRP) or 13 =C2=B5W ERP. Operating hours are a bit limited by politeness to the neighbours who = have to bear the acoustical emission from the loading coil. The 8.3 kHz = tone is not really loud but quite penetrant. Here are a couple of pics = of the present setup, with the coil enclosed by two rubber bins and = placed outside the window: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/vlf_coil_at_window.jpg http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/vlf_coil_and_antenna.jpg Good luck with your forthcoming experiments! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) ... _________________________________________________________________ From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 7:13 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: VLF: 8270 (antenna and grounding) Yes. I sneaked a separate ground wire down the chimney to the basement, = where PE and heating system are connected to the metal water inlet pipe. = On a cold and dry winter day, the antenna resistance at LF (including = the coil) is as low as 15 ohms. This probably is probably aided by a = Faraday shielding effect from the thermal insulation under the roof, = which is covered by a vapor-stop layer consisting of very thin aluminium = foil strips - seems the roof is acting as a sort of ground screen. The telescopic rod consists of several sliding sections separated by = insulating plastic rings, which I thought was good. But I was plagued by = erratic partial discharge problems between segments, which sometimes = came and went away with wind-induced bending. Strong noise in my = neighbour's FM radio, and strange krrrk krrrrrk sounds coming out of the = chimney doorlet. In a recent rework, I have connected all segments with = little bolts, and tied the bottom of the mast to ground potential. 73, Markus From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 6:44 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: VLF: 8270 Markus; That is an amazing antenna! That short to work so well at VLF. Evan = for LF but it really works for you. I see no provision for ground = system and would guess you use house plumbing for ground system? =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- From: markusvester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:26:30 +0100 Subject: Re: VLF: 8270 Bob, it's the same antenna that I use for LF. The mast is a fishing rod on an = aluminium telescopic pole, pushed out of an unused chimney. It carries = three topload legs (N, W and S), about 42 m wire in total (230 pF). The = apex is 20 m AGL or 11 m above the roof, but the effective height is = only 9 m (calibrated at 138 kHz). On VLF frequencies this is probably = even a bit lower due to increased shunting effect from trees. Assuming = heff =3D 8 m, radiation resistance on 8.3 kHz would be 0.08 milliohm. = With 60 Watts input, I got 0.3 A and 25 kV rms, and radiated power = (EMRP) would be around 7 microwatts. Here's a sketch of the wire layout and the auxiliary H- and E-field = receive antennas: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/Hans-Fallada-59_antennas.jpg = One could actually see the antenna in Google Map's slant view, but the = imagery may have changed since: http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/googlemaps_df6nm_antenna.jpg http://maps.google.de/maps?ll=3D49.4158,11.1350&z=3D21 Best 73, Markus From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 5:37 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: VLF: 8270 Markus; What are you using for antenna on 8270? =20 ... ------=_NextPart_000_0011_01CF24C5.DA372CC0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Hi Domenico,
 
nothing special, no radials etc.. I've = pasted a=20 copy of a recent posting, describing my current LF / VLF=20 antenna and grounding scheme in short words. 
All the best,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
PS a web archive for Blacksheep = messages would=20 come in handy ;-)
 
From: ing.lindo
Sent: Saturday, February 08, 2014 11:14 AM
Subject: Re: Re: VLF: 8270.002

Hello Markus and LF,
can we have some info on grounding arrangements on your vlf = system?
Thanks. 
Domenico, iz7slz


-------- Original=20 message --------
From: Markus Vester=20
Date:08/02/2014 00:08 (GMT+01:00)
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: Re: VLF: 8270.002

Thanks Jim!
 
My antenna's effective = height measured at LF=20 is about 9 m. It will be slightly less at VLF due to increased = shielding by trees, my guess is ~ 8 m, giving 77 microohms = radiation=20 resistance. Thus 0.3 amps would radiate 7 =C2=B5W (EMRP) = or 13=20 =C2=B5W ERP.
 
Operating hours are a = bit limited by=20 politeness to the neighbours who have to bear the acoustical=20 emission from the loading coil. The 8.3 kHz tone is not really = loud=20 but quite penetrant. Here are a couple of pics of the present setup, = with the=20 coil enclosed by two rubber bins and placed outside the=20 window:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/vlf_coil_at_window.jpg=
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/vlf_coil_and_antenna.jpg=
 
Good luck with your forthcoming=20 experiments!
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
...
 
____________________________________________________________= _____
From: Markus=20 Vester
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 7:13 PM
Subject: Re: VLF: 8270 (antenna and = grounding)

Yes. I sneaked a=20 separate ground wire down the chimney to the basement, = where PE and=20 heating system are connected to the metal water inlet=20 pipe. On a cold and dry winter day,=20 the antenna resistance at LF (including the coil) is as low as 15=20 ohms. This probably is probably aided by a Faraday = shielding=20 effect from the thermal insulation under the roof, which is=20 covered by a vapor-stop layer consisting of very thin = aluminium foil=20 strips - seems the roof is acting as a sort of ground = screen.
 
The telescopic rod consists of = several sliding=20 sections separated by insulating plastic rings, which I thought was=20 good. But I was plagued by erratic partial discharge problems = between=20 segments, which sometimes came and went away with wind-induced = bending. Strong noise in my neighbour's FM radio, and strange krrrk = krrrrrk=20 sounds coming out of the chimney doorlet. In a recent rework,=20 I have connected all segments with little bolts, = and tied=20 the bottom of the mast to ground potential.
 
73, Markus

Markus;
That is an amazing antenna!  That short = to work so=20 well at VLF.  Evan for LF but it really works for you.  I = see no=20 provision for ground system and would guess you use house plumbing for = ground=20 system?
 
From: markusvester@aol.com
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date:=20 Sat, 11 Jan 2014 18:26:30 +0100
Subject: Re: VLF: 8270

Bob,
 
it's the same = antenna=20 that I use for LF. The mast is a fishing rod on an aluminium = telescopic=20 pole, pushed out of an unused chimney. It carries three topload = legs (N, W=20 and S), about 42 m wire in total (230 pF). The apex is 20 m = AGL or 11=20 m above the roof, but the effective height is only 9 m (calibrated = at 138=20 kHz). On VLF frequencies this is probably even a bit lower due to = increased=20 shunting effect from trees. Assuming heff =3D 8 m, = radiation=20 resistance on 8.3 kHz would be 0.08 milliohm. With 60 Watts=20 input, I got 0.3 A and 25 kV rms, and radiated power = (EMRP) would=20 be around 7 microwatts.
 
Here's a sketch of the wire layout and the = auxiliary H-=20 and E-field receive antennas:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/Hans-Fallada-= 59_antennas.jpg 
 
One could actually see the antenna in = Google Map's=20 slant view, but the imagery may have changed = since:
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/googlemaps_df= 6nm_antenna.jpg
http://maps.google.de/maps?ll=3D49.4158,11.1350&z=3D21
 
Best 73,
Markus

From: Bob Raide
Sent: Saturday, January 11, 2014 5:37=20 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: RE: VLF: 8270

Markus;
What are you using for = antenna on=20 8270?
 
...
 
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