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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id cl6si5161058wjc.145.2013.12.09.10.15.27 for ; Mon, 09 Dec 2013 10:15:28 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Vq57O-0001jR-8J for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:59:42 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Vq57N-0001jA-Fs for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:59:41 +0000 Received: from omr-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.109.194]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Vq57K-0006Vr-A0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Dec 2013 17:59:40 +0000 Received: from mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.10]) by omr-d02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id E83257018B03F for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2013 12:59:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from core-dfe001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dfe001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.55.131]) by mtaomg-ma03.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 7CADAE000086 for ; Mon, 9 Dec 2013 12:59:35 -0500 (EST) References: To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org In-Reply-To: X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-MB-Message-Type: User X-Mailer: Webmail 38221-BASIC Received: from 194.138.39.56 by webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com (205.188.178.106) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Mon, 09 Dec 2013 12:59:35 -0500 Message-Id: <8D0C31F8DA1EC8D-9A4-2C1C@webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [194.138.39.56] Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 12:59:35 -0500 (EST) x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1386611975; bh=+3mTlC7nzkkDVf7Kk9gmwljLfqicpW0/SpwHwVK3YEY=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=N4S+kEW+xS1ke1vJ/mlkD+pRrMw/wGBKdt4LrFrzuGeUq/aEXepwbsWibSXMbDIz8 kA984O0PciTe2qyVs4ZlYf+NqMBVWhSaOuMiTgC/NQLgQbhxufIm0AVuJqCZnf5Vo4 ymvcpzzbZy9DjG6tuQSK3fbHH4AfOVXlT2Qw2Ga4= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d290a52a605077f02 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Bob, considering everything is set up now for both Opera and opds watchers*, I'd tend to stick with the Op(ds)-64 speed for a while. Also stay on the current frequency for now, you seem to be a in a lucky spot cuddled between two stronger peaks at +- 0.1 Hz. Let me have a closer look on the other gap before we decide to QSY.  Do you want to id yourself as WG4XRS tonight? And will Dex (5) also have a go at Opera? If so I'll need to enter the callsigns into the the search list.  All the best, Markus  [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.109.194 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: 3d57f46aaa11dced1062afcdaf02fb40 Subject: RE: LF: 74550 - opds-64 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D0C31F8E0AA90D_9A4_AAC5_webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1343 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D0C31F8E0AA90D_9A4_AAC5_webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Bob, considering everything is set up=C2=A0now for both=C2=A0Opera and opds= watchers*,=C2=A0I'd tend to=C2=A0stick with the Op(ds)-64 speed for a whil= e.=C2=A0Also stay on the current frequency for now,=C2=A0you seem to be a i= n a lucky spot cuddled between two stronger peaks at +- 0.1 Hz. Let me have= a closer look on the other gap before=C2=A0we decide to QSY. =C2=A0 Do you want to id yourself as WG4XRS tonight? And will Dex (5) also have a = go at Opera?=C2=A0If so I'll need to enter=C2=A0the callsigns=C2=A0into the= =C2=A0the search list. =C2=A0 All the best, Markus=C2=A0=C2=A0 * basically I'm=C2=A0saying I'm too lazy to change it all again today ;-) =C2=A0 -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Bob Raide <rjraide@hotmail.com> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Verschickt: Mo, 9 Dez 2013 4:08 pm Betreff: RE: LF: 74550 - opds-64 Markus; All your hard work certainly paid off!=C2=A0 OPDS modes have made a big dif= ference and congrats to Stefan who made=C2=A0more than one=C2=A0Europe-S Am= erica decodes. As for call signs, we had to do that with WSPR modes as well at first-it wo= rked out well. Hopefully there is more than just one good freq to work with on=C2=A0 or ab= out 74.5520?=C2=A0 For now you might give Dex and me a couple of freqs 1 HZ= apart or=C2=A0so and we can try them tonight.=C2=A0=20 Would you prefer to continue with the slower=C2=A0OPDS64 or try to get=C2= =A0opds32 to work? Bob =C2=A0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: markusvester@aol.com Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 06:14:12 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: 74550 - opds-64 Hi Bob, LF, =C2=A0 I am very pleased to find that your Opera-64 signal produced five correlati= on detections here last night. In the attached spectrogram, the symmetrical= Opera modulation sidebands are clearly visible between the many DCF-77 int= erference lines.=20 =C2=A0 Unfortunately the timestamps from SpecLab temporarily suffered from an unex= plained offset, affecting both the spectrogram and the exported spectrum da= ta. Such transient errors have also happened to other slow SpecLab instance= s, eg. 8.97 kHz - sometime after startup, time seems to spontaneously jump = back, and suddenly comes back to normal after a few hours. In this case, ti= mestamps were found to be exactly 5h 46m 4s early, allowing to derive corre= cted spot times (appended to the end of the lines here): =C2=A0 =C2=A0=C2=A0 date=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 time=C2=A0=C2=A0 call=C2=A0= =C2=A0 distance=C2=A0 frequency bandwidth=C2=A0 snr=C2=A0=C2=A0=C2=A0 corre= lation 2013-12-09 07:53:55 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -49.5dBOp=C2=A0 95% 15.6dB 2013-12-09 05:42:27 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -47.3dBOp=C2=A0 82% 16.7dB 2013-12-09 04:36:41 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -44.4dBOp 100% 19.6dB 2013-12-08 22:50:39 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -45.2dBOp=C2=A0 91% 19.1dB=C2=A0 04:36:43 (same transmission as above) 2013-12-08 21:44:53 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -41.8dBOp=C2=A0 92% 19.3dB=C2=A0 03:30:57 2013-12-08 20:39:07 WG2XRS=C2=A0 6448km=C2=A0 74549.500Hz=C2=A0=C2=A0 1mHz = -49.2dBOp=C2=A0 98% 16.1dB=C2=A0 02:25:11 =C2=A0 The grass is always greener on the other side... Regarding the choice of fr= equency, the high resolution spectrogram seems to confirm the gap in the DC= F77 interference around 74552.0 Hz. So Bob, Dex and others may consider mov= ing up there, further reducing the QRM for other observers (eg. Hartmut) as= well. =C2=A0 My understanding is that Opera's 28 bit payload can encode six character ca= llsigns, but no extra appendix. This would result in ambiguities if several= WG2XGR/n stations were transmitting simultaneously. As a simple workaround= , I would suggest to replace the number "2" by the number from the appendix= , eg. just use WG4XGR instead of WG2XGR/4 etc. One could argue that "sendin= g the wrong callsign" might be considered illegal. But it would be unabiguo= us, and we could publicly announce it as an appropriate extension of the Op= era encoding scheme. =C2=A0 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) -----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----=20 Von: Markus Vester <markusvester@aol.com> An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org> Verschickt: So, 8 Dez 2013 11:05 pm Betreff: Re: LF: 74550 - opds-64 Regarding opds-64 (or 65?) setup, I had forgotten to mention two more lines= to be edited in opds.ini: =C2=A0opspeed=3D64=C2=A0=C2=A0 =C2=A0' speed definition =C2=A0spotdelay=3D58=C2=A0 '=C2=A0same timestamp offset=C2=A0as from Opera =C2=A0 In=C2=A0Graham's words, there's really a whole "cactus" of spikes=C2=A0in t= he=C2=A0238 =C2=B5Hz spectrum.=C2=A0Most are on a 16.67 mHz raster, because= large parts of=C2=A0the BCD time-message from DCF77 are repeating=C2=A0eve= ry minute. I have now recalibrated the frequency scale, and restricted the = opds search range from 74548.1=C2=A0to 74550.0 Hz.=20 =C2=A0 Anyway given the QRSS levels from Bob last night I am quite optimistic. =C2=A0 Best 73,=20 Markus (DF6NM) =C2=A0 From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 8:40 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: 74550 ... For the night to come, I'm set up for monitoring=C2=A0opds-64 in a 4 Hz slo= t around 74.55 kHz, and will be uploading screenshots and possible detectio= ns to the usual opds grabber http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/op= ds.htm=20 In case others=C2=A0want to try: SpecLab FFT settings can be=C2=A0similar t= o=C2=A0opds-32 but more decimation is needed for half bandwidth (0.238 mHz)= .=C2=A0In opds.ini,=C2=A0center frequency=C2=A0and decimation should be edi= ted:=C2=A0fc=3D74550,=C2=A0dec=3D50331648 . =C2=A0 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 ----------MB_8D0C31F8E0AA90D_9A4_AAC5_webmail-vd013.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Bob, considering everything is set up now for b= oth Opera and opds watchers*, I'd tend to stick with the Op(= ds)-64 speed for a while. Also stay on the current frequency for now,&= nbsp;you seem to be a in a lucky spot cuddled between two stronger peaks at= +- 0.1 Hz. Let me have a closer look on the other gap before we decid= e to QSY.
 
Do you wan= t to id yourself as WG4XRS tonight? And will Dex (5) also have a go at Oper= a? If so I'll need to enter the callsigns into the the = search list.
 
All the best,
Markus  

* basically I'm saying I'm too lazy to change it all again today = ;-)

 
-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Bob Raide <rjraide@hotmail.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: Mo, 9 Dez 2013 4:08 pm
Betreff: RE: LF: 74550 - opds-64

Markus;
All your hard work certainly paid off!  OPDS modes have made a big dif= ference and congrats to Stefan who made more than one Europe-S Am= erica decodes.
As for call signs, we had to do that with WSPR modes as well at first-it wo= rked out well.
Hopefully there is more than just one good freq to work with on  or ab= out 74.5520?  For now you might give Dex and me a couple of freqs 1 HZ= apart or so and we can try them tonight. 
Would you prefer to continue with the slower OPDS64 or try to get = ;opds32 to work?
Bob
 
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshee= p.org
From: markusvester@aol.com
Date: Mon, 9 Dec 2013 06:14:12 -0500
Subject: Re: LF: 74550 - opds-64

= Hi Bob, LF,
 
I am very = pleased to find that your Opera-64 signal produced five correlation detecti= ons here last night. In the attached spectrogram, the symmetrical Opera mod= ulation sidebands are clearly visible between the many DCF-77 interference = lines.
 
Unfortunat= ely the timestamps from SpecLab temporarily suffered from an unexplained of= fset, affecting both the spectrogram and the exported spectrum data. Such t= ransient errors have also happened to other slow SpecLab instances, eg. 8.9= 7 kHz - sometime after startup, time seems to spontaneously jump back, and = suddenly comes back to normal after a few hours. In this case, timestamps w= ere found to be exactly 5h 46m 4s early, allowing to derive corrected spot = times (appended to the end of the lines here):
 
 &nbs= p; date      time   call   dis= tance  frequency bandwidth  snr    correlation
2013-12-09 07:53:55 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -49.5dBOp  95% 15.6dB
2013-12-09 05:42:27 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -47.3dBOp  82% 16.7dB
2013-12-09 04:36:41 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -44.4dBOp 100% 19.6dB
2013-12-08 22:50:39 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -45.2dBOp  91% 19.1dB  04:36:43 (same transmission as above)
2013-12-08 21:44:53 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -41.8dBOp  92% 19.3dB  03:30:57
2013-12-08 20:39:07 WG2XRS  6448km  74549.500Hz   1mHz = -49.2dBOp  98% 16.1dB  02:25:11
 
The grass = is always greener on the other side... Regarding the choice of frequency, t= he high resolution spectrogram seems to confirm the gap in the DCF77 interf= erence around 74552.0 Hz. So Bob, Dex and others may consider moving up the= re, further reducing the QRM for other observers (eg. Hartmut) as well.
 
My underst= anding is that Opera's 28 bit payload can encode six character callsigns, b= ut no extra appendix. This would result in ambiguities if several WG2XGR/n = stations were transmitting simultaneously. As a simple workaround, I would = suggest to replace the number "2" by the number from the appendix, eg. just= use WG4XGR instead of WG2XGR/4 etc. One could argue that "sending the wron= g callsign" might be considered illegal. But it would be unabiguous, and we= could publicly announce it as an appropriate extension of the Opera encodi= ng scheme.
 
Best 73, Markus (DF6NM)

-----Urspr=C3=BCngliche Mitteilung-----
Von: Markus Vester <markusvester= @aol.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group <rsgb_= lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Verschickt: So, 8 Dez 2013 11:05 pm
Betreff: Re: LF: 74550 - opds-64

Regarding opds-64 (or 65?) setup, I had fo= rgotten to mention two more lines to be edited in opds.ini:
 opspeed=3D64    ' spe= ed definition
 spotdelay=3D58  ' same timestamp offset as from Opera<= /FONT>
 
In Graham's words, there's really a w= hole "cactus" of spikes in the 238 =C2=B5Hz spectrum. Most a= re on a 16.67 mHz raster, because large parts of the BCD time-message = from DCF77 are repeating every minute. I have now recalibrated the fre= quency scale, and restricted the opds search range from 74548.1 to 745= 50.0 Hz.
 
Anyway given the QRSS levels from Bob last= night I am quite optimistic.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

Sent: Sunday, December 08, 2013 8:40 PM
Subject: LF: 74550
=
...
For the night to come, I'm set up for moni= toring opds-64 in a 4 Hz slot around 74.55 kHz, and will be uploading = screenshots and possible detections to the usual opds grabber http://dl.dro= pboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/opds.htm
In case others want to try: SpecLab F= FT settings can be similar to opds-32 but more decimation is need= ed for half bandwidth (0.238 mHz). In opds.ini, center frequency&= nbsp;and decimation should be edited: fc=3D74550, dec=3D50331648 .
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
 
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