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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Â Hi Markus and group Very well put Markus I am with you on this. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX [...] Content analysis details: (1.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [212.82.96.42 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (m0fmt[at]yahoo.co.uk) 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 1.3 GAPPY_SUBJECT Subject: contains G.a.p.p.y-T.e.x.t 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: c4b6da135418c728784be403b29680a8 Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="63076496-2003695185-1388222339=:30425" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.6 required=5.0 tests=GAPPY_SUBJECT,HTML_60_70, HTML_FONT_BIG,HTML_MESSAGE,HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2683 --63076496-2003695185-1388222339=:30425 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =C2=A0Hi Markus and group=0A=0AVery well put Markus I am with you on this.= =0A=0A=0A73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX=0A=0A=0A_______________________________= _=0A From: Markus Vester =0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksh= eep.org =0ASent: Friday, 27 December 2013, 23:14=0ASubject: Re: LF: RE: [O_= P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014=0A =0A=0A=0AHi Graham, Opera fans and cr= itics, =0A=C2=A0 =0Ain my opinion, it's not one but really two =0Adifferent= arguments: =0A=C2=A0 =0AYes, sharing=C2=A0source code is one.=C2=A0Surely= =0Aone big motivation for spending time on amateur radio is learning. I'm = curious =0Ato find out about the ways others are doing things, and expect t= hem to=C2=A0be =0Ajust as curious about=C2=A0mine.=C2=A0We=C2=A0are not onl= y "users" but (by =0Adefinition of being a ham) have an interest in the tec= hnology itself. That's why =0AI prefer to=C2=A0share source code along with= =C2=A0my=C2=A0humble (and sometimes =0Aridiculous) programming attempts - i= deally,=C2=A0ideas=C2=A0are free for =0Aall.=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0 =0ABut of cour= se that's only my own preference, =0Aand=C2=A0I would surely respect=C2=A0a= n=C2=A0author's decision to keep his code =0Ato himself.=C2=A0In any case, = detailed=C2=A0explanations about=C2=A0what a =0Aprogram or algorithm is doi= ng are extremely valuable. =0A=C2=A0 =0AThe other argument is about over-th= e-air protocols, =0Awhich I would always expect to be published. There used= to be a "plain language" =0Arule, which=C2=A0formally made it illegal to u= se secret or encrypted codes in =0Aamateur radio. It had to do with politic= al neutrality and prevention of abuse, =0Abut nowadays it still makes perfe= ct sense to me. Open protocols=C2=A0also allow =0Aothers to develop alterna= tive (and perhaps in some=C2=A0aspects =0Abetter)=C2=A0modulators and decod= ers.=C2=A0At least in=C2=A0principle, I would =0Alike to be able to underst= and the meaning of every single bit or dit which is =0Aleaving my antenna! = =0A=0AIn my opinion, it is not enough that "anyone can =0Adownload" a piece= of proprietary software, allowing him to decode that secret =0Aprotocol wi= th an undisclosed algorithm. How would you prove=C2=A0to a suspicious =0Ami= nd what was really being exchanged over the air?=C2=A0Things are=C2=A0becom= ing =0Aeven more complex when=C2=A0extensive data transfer over the interne= t=C2=A0is =0Ainvolved. As to myself, I can safely state=C2=A0that I haven't= bothered to touch =0AOpera=C2=A0software before=C2=A0Guido=C2=A0reverse en= gineered the protocol and =0Amade it publicly available. Just as well=C2=A0= as I would rather avoid=C2=A0using =0Aproprietary digital voice modes in ha= m radio. =0A=C2=A0 =0ASo much for my two cents... =0A=C2=A0 =0ABest 73, =0A= Markus (DF6NM) =0A=C2=A0 =0APS emails from Blacksheep are still coming here= in =0Awith large delays and in wrong order. =0A=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0 =0A=C2=A0 = =0A=0A =0AFrom: Graham =0ASent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:23 PM =0ATo: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0ASubject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera up= grades for =0A2014 =0A =0AIts=C2=A0 the=C2=A0old source=C2=A0 code=C2=A0 ar= gument =0A=C2=A0 =0AThere are plenty of=C2=A0 locked=C2=A0 systems=C2=A0 i= n =0Ause , source code comes under=C2=A0 'IP'=C2=A0Intellectual Property ri= ghts , =0Athere is no=C2=A0 need=C2=A0 to=C2=A0 disclose=C2=A0 as=C2=A0 lon= g as=C2=A0 =0Aall=C2=A0 can=C2=A0 use=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 same=C2=A0, sure=C2= =A0 =0Asome=C2=A0=C2=A0would=C2=A0 like to=C2=A0 see=C2=A0 'how'=C2=A0 but = that's =0Aanother angle =C2=A0, same=C2=A0 with=C2=A0 encryption, DSSS nume= ric=C2=A0based =0Adata=C2=A0 modes like=C2=A0 Olivia , chip64, contessa , r= os=C2=A0hf =C2=A0 as =0Along=C2=A0 as=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 software=C2=A0 has th= e=C2=A0 same=C2=A0 keys=C2=A0 =0Athen that=C2=A0 meets the=C2=A0 requiremen= ts =0A=C2=A0 =0AThe Opera=C2=A0 decoder is=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 data=C2=A0 =0Adec= oder ,=C2=A0 Marcus is=C2=A0 running=C2=A0 correlation , pattern=C2=A0 =0Am= atching , two=C2=A0 different things entirely , one has high=C2=A0 =0Aequip= ment=C2=A0 over heads , the=C2=A0 other=C2=A0 uses=C2=A0anti noise/ =0Afec/= afc=C2=A0 software routines to=C2=A0 negate=C2=A0hardware affects on system= =0Aperformance and counteract propagation conditions , Opera=C2=A0 is a=C2= =A0 =0Aaveraging=C2=A0 system and=C2=A0 requires=C2=A0 for a decode , the= =C2=A0 =0Aaverage=C2=A0 of=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 min s/n=C2=A0 , from 50% of the= =C2=A0 =0Adata=C2=A0 randomly dispersed along the=C2=A0 time=C2=A0 line , i= e first =0A50=C2=A0 last 50=C2=A0 or=C2=A0 any 50% =0A=C2=A0 =0AG, =0A=C2= =A0 =0A=0A =0AFrom: Bob Raide =0ASent: Friday, December 27, 2013 8:53 PM = =0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0ASubject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] O= pera upgrades for =0A2014 =0A =0AWhat your saying is=C2=A0for those of us w= anting to improve things =0Ago play with the other systems and leave=C2=A0O= PERA just as it is? =0ABob=0A=C2=A0=0A=0A=0A_______________________________= _=0A=0AFrom: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk=0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=0AD= ate: =0AFri, 27 Dec 2013 20:39:58 +0000=0ASubject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_]= Opera =0Aupgrades for 2014=0A=0A=0AThere=C2=A0 are plenty of=C2=A0 commerc= ial=C2=A0 data=C2=A0 mode=C2=A0 =0Asystems=C2=A0 in use=C2=A0 on the=C2=A0 = Ham bands=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 are =0Alocked=C2=A0 and not=C2=A0 publicised , f= rom=C2=A0 my experience , the=C2=A0 =0Alocked systems seem to=C2=A0 give a= =C2=A0 superior level=C2=A0 of performance =0A=C2=A0to the=C2=A0 open =C2= =A0=C2=A0=C2=A0code=C2=A0 versions , pactor-4=C2=A0 =0Abeing a=C2=A0 good= =C2=A0 example , using=C2=A0 modern=C2=A0 ss techniques=C2=A0 =0Aachieves= =C2=A0 high data/power=C2=A0 ratio , but=C2=A0 missing=C2=A0 is =0Athe=C2= =A0 cdma=C2=A0 layer that=C2=A0 would=C2=A0 enhance=C2=A0 b/w=C2=A0 user = =0Aefficiency=C2=A0=C2=A0, but=C2=A0 that=C2=A0 exists in another locked da= ta=C2=A0 =0Amode , which is=C2=A0 free =0A=0ASo=C2=A0 where /what=C2=A0 is= the=C2=A0 problem ? =0A=0AG, =0A=0A =0AFrom: wolf_dl4yhf =0ASent: Friday= , December 27, 2013 7:41 PM =0ATo: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0ASubject= : Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for =0A2014 =0A =0AThanks for for= warding the message Bob - so I won't =0Aspend any effort in implementing Op= era myself if Markus's DS algorithm is really =0Aembedded in the Ros-softwa= re.=0ADespite the fact that I don't like, and will =0Anot use, the original= Opera software myself as long as its author makes such a =0Asecret of it, = leaving it to others to reverse-engineer the =0Aalgorithms.=0A=0ACheers,=0A= =C2=A0 Wolf .=0A=0AAm 27.12.2013 19:31, schrieb =0ABob Raide:=0A =0A =0A>Tr= evor and all;=0A>Especially #1!!!=C2=A0 If that alone could =0A be=C2=A0ac= complished the rest later would do=C2=A0just fine. Bob, =0A WG2XRS/4-4000 = meters, WE2XEB-2200 meters, WE2XGR/6-630/600 =0A meters-W2ZM...=0A>=C2=A0= =0A>=0A>=0A>________________________________=0A>=0ATo: O_P_E_R_A_@yahoogrou= ps.com=0A>CC: tsmithers@cix.co.uk=0A>From: tsmithers@cix.co.uk=0A>Date: Fri= , 27 Dec =0A 2013 16:48:00 +0000=0A>Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades f= or =0A 2014=0A>=0A>=C2=A0 =0A>A few thoughts for Opera enhancements VLF to= 160m=0A>=0A>(1) Deep Search Detector built in to existing Opera system wi= th =0A ability to run alongside existing =0A>Op decoders and report direct= ly to PSK =0A reporter =0A>=0A>(2) Reinstate the dual receive function wit= hout having to =0A open multiple instances of the software.=0A>=0A>(3) Dyn= amically resizable =0A screen or replace the dials with led bar type indic= ators - would make =0A>the =0A overall screen size a little smaller.=0A>= =0A>(4) Option to "tear off" the =0A waterfall to enable positioning on an= other part of the monitor screen - =0A>like wsprx for example.=0A>=0A>Trevo= r G0KTN=0A>=0A>=0A> =0A>__._,_.___ =0A>Reply via web post Reply to sender= Reply to group Start a New Topic Messages in this topic (1) =0A>Rece= nt Activity: =09* New Members 3 =0A>Visit Your Group =0A> =0A>Switch to: = Text-Only, Daily Digest =E2=80=A2 Unsubscribe =E2=80=A2 Terms of Use =E2= =80=A2 Send us Feedback =0A> =0A>. =0A>=0A>__,_._,___ --63076496-2003695185-1388222339=:30425 Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
 Hi Markus and g= roup

Very well put Markus I am with you on this.
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX

<= div dir=3D"ltr">
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <= br> Sent: Friday, 27 Decem= ber 2013, 23:14
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades for 2014

=0A
Hi Graham, Opera fans and critics,
=0A
 
=0A
in my opinion, it's not one but really two =0Adifferent arguments= :
=0A
 
= =0A
Yes, sharing source code is on= e. Surely =0Aone big motivation for spending time on amateur radio is = learning. I'm curious =0Ato find out about the ways others are doing things= , and expect them to be =0Ajust as curious about mine. We&nb= sp;are not only "users" but (by =0Adefinition of being a ham) have an inter= est in the technology itself. That's why =0AI prefer to share source c= ode along with my humble (and sometimes =0Aridiculous) programmin= g attempts - ideally, ideas are free for =0Aall. =0A
 
=0A
But of course that's only my own preference, =0Aa= nd I would surely respect an author's decision to keep his c= ode =0Ato himself. In any case, detailed explanations about = what a =0Aprogram or algorithm is doing are extremely valuable.=0A
 
=0A
The other argument is about over-the-air protocols= , =0Awhich I would always expect to be published. There used to be a "plain= language" =0Arule, which formally made it illegal to use secret or en= crypted codes in =0Aamateur radio. It had to do with political neutrality a= nd prevention of abuse, =0Abut nowadays it still makes perfect sense to me.= Open protocols also allow =0Aothers to develop alternative (and perha= ps in some aspects =0Abetter) modulators and decoders. At le= ast in principle, I would =0Alike to be able to understand the meaning= of every single bit or dit which is =0Aleaving my antenna!
=0A=
 
=0A
In my opinion, it = is not enough that "anyone can =0Adownload" a piece of proprietary software= , allowing him to decode that secret =0Aprotocol with an undisclosed algori= thm. How would you prove to a suspicious =0Amind what was really being= exchanged over the air? Things are becoming =0Aeven more complex= when extensive data transfer over the internet is =0Ainvolved. A= s to myself, I can safely state that I haven't bothered to touch =0AOp= era software before Guido reverse engineered the protocol an= d =0Amade it publicly available. Just as well as I would rather avoid&= nbsp;using =0Aproprietary digital voice modes in ham radio.
=0A=
 
=0A
So much for my two cents...
=0A
 
=0A
Best 73,
=0A
Mar= kus (DF6NM)
=0A
&nbs= p;
=0A
PS emails from Blacksheep a= re still coming here in =0Awith large delays and in wrong order.=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
 
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A
From: Graham
= =0A
Sent: Friday, December 27, 2013 10:23 PM
=0A=0A
Subject: Re: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades fo= r =0A2014
=0A

=0A
Its  the old source  code  argument =0A
=0A
 
=0A
There are plenty of  locked  systems  in =0Ause= , source code comes under  'IP' Intellectual Property rights , = =0Athere is no  need  to  disclose  as  long as&nb= sp; =0Aall  can  use  the  same , sure  =0Aso= me  would  like to  see  'how'  but that's = =0Aanother angle  , same  with  encryption, DSSS numeric&nbs= p;based =0Adata  modes like  Olivia , chip64, contessa , ros = ;hf   as =0Along  as  the  software  has the = same  keys  =0Athen that  meets the  requirements
=0A
 
=0A
The Opera  decoder is  a  data  =0Adecoder ,=   Marcus is  running  correlation , pattern  =0Amatchin= g , two  different things entirely , one has high  =0Aequipment&n= bsp; over heads , the  other  uses anti noise/ =0Afec/afc&nb= sp; software routines to  negate hardware affects on system =0Ape= rformance and counteract propagation conditions , Opera  is a  = =0Aaveraging  system and  requires  for a decode , the = =0Aaverage  of  the  min s/n  , from 50% of the  = =0Adata  randomly dispersed along the  time  line , ie first= =0A50  last 50  or  any 50%
=0A
 
=0A
G,
= =0A
 
=0A
=0A

=0A
=0A
From: Bob Raide
=0A
Sent: Fr= iday, December 27, 2013 8:53 PM
=0A=0A
Subject: RE: LF: RE: [O_P_E_R_A_] Oper= a upgrades for =0A2014
=0A

= =0A
What your saying is for those of us wanting to imp= rove things =0Ago play with the other systems and leave OPERA just as = it is? =0ABob
 
=0A
=0A
=0AFrom: g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Dat= e: =0AFri, 27 Dec 2013 20:39:58 +0000
Subject: Re: LF: RE= : [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera =0Aupgrades for 2014

=0A
There  are plenty of  commercial  data  mod= e  =0Asystems  in use  on the  Ham bands  that&nbs= p; are =0Alocked  and not  publicised , from  my experience = , the  =0Alocked systems seem to  give a  superior level&nbs= p; of performance =0A to the  open    code  v= ersions , pactor-4  =0Abeing a  good  example , using  = modern  ss techniques  =0Aachieves  high data/power  ra= tio , but  missing  is =0Athe  cdma  layer that  w= ould  enhance  b/w  user =0Aefficiency  , but = ; that  exists in another locked data  =0Amode , which is  f= ree
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So  where /what  is the&nbs= p; problem ?
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G,
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Thanks for forwarding the message Bo= b - so I won't =0Aspend any effort in implementing Opera myself if Markus's= DS algorithm is really =0Aembedded in the Ros-software.
= Despite the fact that I don't like, and will =0Anot use, the original Opera= software myself as long as its author makes such a =0Asecret of it, leavin= g it to others to reverse-engineer the =0Aalgorithms.
Cheers,
  Wolf .
<= br clear=3D"none">Am 27.12.2013 19:31, schrieb =0ABob Raide:
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Trevor and all;
Especially #1!!!&nb= sp; If that alone could =0A be accomplished the rest later would do&n= bsp;just fine. Bob, =0A WG2XRS/4-4000 meters, WE2XEB-2200 meters, WE2XGR/6= -630/600 =0A meters-W2ZM...
 
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= =0A To: O_P_= E_R_A_@yahoogroups.com
CC: =0A tsmithers@cix.co.uk
From: tsmithers@cix.co.uk
Date: Fri, 27 Dec =0A = 2013 16:48:00 +0000
Subject: [O_P_E_R_A_] Opera upgrades = for =0A 2014

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= A few thoughts for Opera enhancements VLF to =0A 160m
(1) Deep Search Detector built in to existing Opera system= with =0A ability to run alongside existing
Op decoders= and report directly to PSK =0A reporter

(2) Reinstate the dual receive function without having to =0A open mu= ltiple instances of the software.

(3) = Dynamically resizable =0A screen or replace the dials with led bar type in= dicators - would make
the =0A overall screen size a lit= tle smaller.

(4) Option to "tear off" = the =0A waterfall to enable positioning on another part of the monitor scr= een - =0A
like wsprx for example.
Trevor G0KTN


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