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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: These seem to be even smaller ! http://schwarzbeck.de/Datenblatt/K5149.pdf From: Stefan Schäfer Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:58 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: A /p 630m transmit loop (?) [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.29 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 03611e5ac7d3498d5891f08d3655033a Subject: Re: LF: RE: A /p 630m transmit loop (?) Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_01DC_01CEE325.65B3F270" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, HTML_TAG_EXISTS_TBODY,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 2647 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01CEE325.65B3F270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable These seem to be even smaller ! http://schwarzbeck.de/Datenblatt/K5149.pdf From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:58 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: RE: A /p 630m transmit loop (?) Hi all,=20 Wonderful. I really didn't expect such results from a 1m diameter indoor = TX loop.! So far (best reports): Timestamp Call MHz SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az=20 2013-11-16 22:14 DK7FC 0.475683 -27 0 JN49ik 1 PA0A = JO33de 449 339 =20 2013-11-16 20:20 DK7FC 0.475679 -28 0 JN49ik 1 = PA3FNY JO22nc 389 321 =20 2013-11-16 20:32 DK7FC 0.475685 -29 0 JN49ik 1 = PI4THT JO32kf 336 338 =20 2013-11-16 22:26 DK7FC 0.475683 -19 0 JN49ik 1 = DL4RAJ JN68kj 326 109 =20 2013-11-16 20:34 DK7FC 0.475684 -25 0 JN49ik 1 = DL1DBC JO41bi 217 349 =20 2013-11-16 21:10 DK7FC 0.475682 -17 0 JN49ik 1 = DF8UO JN48ex 56 206 =20 2013-11-16 20:40 DK7FC 0.475690 -26 0 JN49ik 1 = DK6UG JN49cm 37 285 =20 Thanks to the reporters. The PA consumes about 2A at 13.8V. The capacitors are warm and were = drifting until there was a steady state of temperature and antenna = current. They are abouut 20 C above the ambient temperature. These = losses must come mostly from their legs (no snubber caps). It could be = useful to remove the 22nF caps and only use 6.8 nF caps so the current = is spread and the losses fall a bit more, until i reach the voltage = limit of the caps which means another 6 dB of signal... Will see... Now i turned the loop a bit more to NNE, pointing to DL-SWL. But i = assume he has a directional antenna pointing to the US... 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 16.11.2013 20:50, schrieb Dave G3WCB.:=20 Stefan, I think that G4KPX was using a 1m indoor loop at one time. I'm copying = him right now on WSPR, but I don't know if he is still using the loop, or something different. Quote from an e-mail on 13th Jan by G3XBM below:- "Another local G4KPX is using 1W RF into a 1m diameter loop indoors and getting reports from decent distances. He is a good signal with me. = Amazing. His ERP is a lot less than 100uW." 73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM -----Original Message----- From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org [mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer Sent: 16 November 2013 19:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: A /p 630m transmit loop (?) Hi MF, I've played a bit arround with my 1m diameter loop (copper, 18mm diameter x 1mm). Last year i used it as a receive loop. Today i asked myselfe what distance could be made with such a loop when transmitting on MF WSPR, indoors! For LF i needed 501 nF to resonate it to 137 kHz and a ferrite core with the primary turn across the capacitor. Primary way 29 turns and secondary (matched to 50 Ohm!) was 10 turns. Now for MF i just need 40.5 nF to resonate it to 475.7 kHz and a ferrite transformer arround the copper tube (=3D1 turn primary) and 35 turns on the transmitter side to match it to about 50 Ohm. Photos: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20TX%20loop%20all.jpg and https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20TX%20loop%20zoom.jpg= I thought this way (tube through the ferrite transformer, i.e. a single turn on one side) is better because here, when TXing, the voltage across the C will be very high and will be the limiting factor for the system. Later i found that it actually is the current which warms up the capacitors. The voltage in a steady state is just about 300 V rms. So the antenna current must be 36 A. In that case, the TX power is in the range of 30W, so it's quite QRP (for me) :-) Of course i do not expect much. Any detection in WSPR-2 outside the near field will make me happy for this test. So, while TXing WSPR-15 on LF here at work this night, i will carry the antenna and my small PA + equipment to my home QTH in JN49IJ, which is a distance of 0.95 km, even more than 1 Lambda ;-) Depending on the results i will TX through the night, beaming to NW/SE (G, PA) or WSW/NNE (F). Reports apprechiated! 73, Stefan/DK7FC PS: This is the fun of practical amateur radio work: I'm looking forward to the results and still don't know them. Some others would read some papers, calculate the ERP , estimate the distance and then go back to TV = :-) ------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01CEE325.65B3F270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="ISO-8859-15" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
These  seem  to  be  even  smaller  = !
 
http://schwarzbeck.de= /Datenblatt/K5149.pdf
 
 

From: Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Saturday, November 16, 2013 10:58 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: RE: A /p 630m transmit loop = (?)

Hi all,

Wonderful. I really didn't expect such = results=20 from a 1m diameter indoor TX loop.!
So far (best reports):

Timestamp Call MHz SNR Drift Grid Pwr Reporter RGrid km az
 2013-11-16 22:14   DK7FC   0.475683   -27   0   JN49ik   1   PA0A   JO33de   449   339 
 2013-11-16 20:20   DK7FC   0.475679   -28   0   JN49ik   1   PA3FNY   JO22nc   389   321 
 2013-11-16 20:32   DK7FC   0.475685   -29   0   JN49ik   1   PI4THT   JO32kf   336   338 
 2013-11-16 22:26   DK7FC   0.475683   -19   0   JN49ik   1   DL4RAJ   JN68kj   326   109 
 2013-11-16 20:34   DK7FC   0.475684   -25   0   JN49ik   1   DL1DBC   JO41bi   217   349 
 2013-11-16 21:10   DK7FC   0.475682   -17   0   JN49ik   1   DF8UO   JN48ex   56   206 
 2013-11-16 20:40   DK7FC   0.475690   -26   0   JN49ik   1   DK6UG   JN49cm   37   285 

Thanks to the = reporters.

The PA consumes about 2A at 13.8V. The capacitors are = warm and=20 were drifting until there was a steady state of temperature and antenna = current.=20 They are abouut 20 C above the ambient temperature. These losses must = come=20 mostly from their legs (no snubber caps). It could be useful to remove = the 22nF=20 caps and only use 6.8 nF caps so the current is spread and the losses = fall a bit=20 more, until i reach the voltage limit of the caps which means another 6 = dB of=20 signal... Will see...

Now i turned the loop a bit more to  = NNE,=20 pointing to DL-SWL. But i assume he has a directional antenna pointing = to the=20 US...

73, Stefan/DK7FC



Am 16.11.2013 20:50, = schrieb Dave=20 G3WCB.:=20 
Stefan,

I think that G4KPX was using a 1m indoor loop at one time. I'm copying =
him
right now on WSPR, but I don't know if he is still using the loop, or
something different.

Quote from an e-mail on 13th Jan by G3XBM below:-

"Another local G4KPX is using 1W RF into a 1m diameter loop indoors and
getting reports from decent distances. He is a good signal with me. =
Amazing.
His ERP is a lot less than 100uW."

73, Dave G3WCB IO91RM

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-rsgb_lf_group@bl=
acksheep.org
[mailto:owner-rsgb_lf_g=
roup@blacksheep.org]On Behalf Of Stefan Sch=E4fer
Sent: 16 November 2013 19:35
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=

Subject: LF: A /p 630m transmit loop (?)


Hi MF,

I've played a bit arround with my 1m diameter loop (copper, 18mm
diameter x 1mm). Last year i used it as a receive loop. Today i asked
myselfe what distance could be made with such a loop when transmitting
on MF WSPR, indoors!

For LF i needed 501 nF to resonate it to 137 kHz and a ferrite core with
the primary turn across the capacitor. Primary way 29 turns and
secondary (matched to 50 Ohm!) was 10 turns.

Now for MF i just need 40.5 nF to resonate it to 475.7 kHz and a ferrite
transformer arround the copper tube (=3D1 turn primary) and 35 turns on
the transmitter side to match it to about 50 Ohm.

Photos:
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20TX%20loop%2=
0all.jpg
and
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19882028/MF/MF%20TX%20loop%=
20zoom.jpg

I thought this way (tube through the ferrite transformer, i.e. a single
turn on one side) is better because here, when TXing, the voltage across
the C will be very high and will be the limiting factor for the system.
Later i found that it actually is the current which warms up the
capacitors. The voltage in a steady state is just about 300 V rms. So
the antenna current must be 36 A. In that case, the TX power is in the
range of 30W, so it's quite QRP (for me) :-)

Of course i do not expect much. Any detection in WSPR-2 outside the near
field will make me happy for this test.

So, while TXing WSPR-15 on LF here at work this night, i will carry the
antenna and my small PA + equipment to my home QTH in JN49IJ, which is a
distance of  0.95 km, even more than 1 Lambda ;-) Depending on the
results i will TX through the night, beaming to NW/SE (G, PA) or WSW/NNE
(F).

Reports apprechiated!

73, Stefan/DK7FC


PS: This is the fun of practical amateur radio work: I'm looking forward
to the results and still don't know them. Some others would read some
papers, calculate the ERP , estimate the distance and then go back to TV =
:-)
------=_NextPart_000_01DC_01CEE325.65B3F270--