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[195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id be2si5899331wib.79.2013.11.24.08.33.03 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 08:33:03 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1VkcEl-0001YP-86 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:08:43 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1VkcEk-0001YG-L8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:08:42 +0000 Received: from omr-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.222.129]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1VkcEi-0003jh-1q for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 16:08:41 +0000 Received: from mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.134]) by omr-m08.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 6583170152B60 for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 11:08:35 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-238-155-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.238.155]) by mtaout-da06.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 91B1FE0000AE for ; Sun, 24 Nov 2013 11:08:32 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <6E24D75D5C5D49C7BFF672AF65D61EFA@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <17E7B3DB16534D2E829B89276609882C@White>, Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 17:08:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1385309315; bh=z8IDy7vIgptxA6slTHkxl/+C3MjjwzlKBvV7SrPQgUc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=uxW19rx8sypJi0eP4IDE8veqhnFgdVyM27A8xAwTeUWy439YV1LhAl4n0J9TKZq3i vVoT7otQjOlVRqFATy6ZiKm47+65CMmvmyC3sgoSoSWgUq49GGTypWYDvD6Xx3HDqP SYvOAnP2mW+tFeEj6Nkjics7i1OO01W+PsY+oipg= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d338652922480012e X-AOL-IP: 95.91.238.155 X-Spam-Score: 1.0 (+) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Bob, maybe not solid, but at least a bit ;-) My problem is not Loran but the German time signal station DCF77 with it's ugly phase modulation. BTW I think I read somewhere that WWVB 60 kHz will also adopt a similar scheme, which would then be quite conspicuous when listening to it in SSB mode. [...] Content analysis details: (1.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.222.129 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid 1.0 FREEMAIL_REPLY From and body contain different freemails X-Scan-Signature: b64e297c4577ad617411a4f8f6174ca7 Subject: Re: LF: TA Nov 23/24 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_000E_01CEE937.CC2CBC40" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.9 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3004 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CEE937.CC2CBC40 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Bob, maybe not solid, but at least a bit ;-) My problem is not Loran but = the German time signal station DCF77 with it's ugly phase modulation. = BTW I think I read somewhere that WWVB 60 kHz will also adopt a similar = scheme, which would then be quite conspicuous when listening to it in = SSB mode. Anyway going from Holland to central Eu might well be another hop over = land, so we have to expected signals are signifiantly weaker here. CFH = 73.6 was solid here all night, but again that is much closer than you = are. Best 73, and thanks for the activity, Markus (DF6NM) =20 From: Bob Raide=20 Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:15 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: RE: LF: TA Nov 23/24 Markus; Very tough to hit you solid. I think you are further east of the other = stations that receive US stations. Also run into the loran artifacts as = you get closer to them being in eastern Germany. To make matters worse, = I am further west than the New England stations as I am only 70-80 miles = from Ohio. I did some WSPR 2 on 474 last week and noticed on a couple nights that = never got on the Continent only kept hitting the UK round after round. = Appears like a curtain falls at a certain distance. Attenuation seems = to increase rapidly after a certain distance-I tried WSPR 15 to see at = what SNR was keeping me from being detected. Just appeared that no one = on that mode that night. =20 Will keep trying-thanks for 74 grabber-I could see traces at about 0200 = and looked like it was going to become solid capture-73, Bob =20 -------------------------------------------------------------------------= ------- Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:47:44 -0500 From: wd2xgj@gmail.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA Nov 23/24 Markus,=20 Thanks for the capture and thanks for listening! No, I did not fire up again at 0500 - must be some other signal. 73 Warren K2ORS On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Markus Vester = wrote: Bob,=20 looks like some dashes came through here around 3 UT, see 74 kHz = grabber screenshots, or browse=20 df6nm.bplaced.net/LF/74kHz/ Warren,=20 meager traces appeared on your QRG around 23:30. And then maybe for a = short period after 5 UT - did you happen to restart the TX again later? http://www.df6nm.de/grabber/LF_lastnight.htm On the TA grabs there occured two periods of purple noise, 21:18 - = 22:45 and 3:20 - 4:41. These are caused by increased data throughput on = DCF39. The FSK bursts are very conspicuous on the DM4TR grabber dm4tr.bplaced.net=20 which is located closer to DCF39. In the top panel, you can see that = there would be useful spectral gaps around 137.765 kHz (about 10 Hz = below the current TA slot), and around 137.63 kHz (70 Hz below the = QRSS-3 center). Note that the frequency scale in the second panel is = currently incorrect.=20 Best 73, Markus=20 (DF6NM in JN59NJ) --=20 73 Warren K2ORS WD2XGJ=20 WD2XSH/23 WE2XEB/2 WE2XGR/1 ------=_NextPart_000_000E_01CEE937.CC2CBC40 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Bob, maybe not solid, but at least a = bit ;-) My=20 problem is not Loran but the German time signal station DCF77 with it's = ugly=20 phase modulation. BTW I think I read somewhere that WWVB 60 kHz = will also=20 adopt a similar scheme, which would then be quite conspicuous=20 when listening to it in SSB mode.
 
Anyway going from Holland to central Eu = might well=20 be another hop over land, so we have=20 to expected signals are signifiantly weaker here. CFH 73.6 was = solid=20 here all night, but again that is much closer than you are.
 
Best 73, and thanks for the = activity,
 
Markus (DF6NM)

 
From: Bob Raide
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 4:15 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: RE: LF: TA Nov 23/24

Markus;
Very tough to hit you solid.  I think you = are=20 further east of the other stations that receive US stations.  = Also run=20 into the loran artifacts as you get closer to them being in eastern=20 Germany.  To make matters worse, I am further west than the New = England=20 stations as I am only 70-80 miles from Ohio.
I did some WSPR 2 on 474 = last=20 week and noticed on a couple nights that never got on the Continent = only=20 kept hitting the UK round after round.  Appears like a curtain = falls at a=20 certain distance.  Attenuation seems to increase rapidly after = a=20 certain distance-I tried WSPR 15 to see at what SNR = was=20 keeping me from being detected.  Just appeared that no one on that = mode=20 that night.  
Will keep trying-thanks for 74 grabber-I = could=20 see traces at about 0200 and looked like it was going to become solid=20 capture-73, Bob
 
Date: Sun, 24 Nov 2013 09:47:44 -0500
From: wd2xgj@gmail.com
To:=20 rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: TA Nov 23/24

Markus,=20
     Thanks for the capture and thanks for = listening!
No, I did not fire up again at 0500 - must be some other = signal.

73 Warren K2ORS




On Sun, Nov 24, 2013 at 4:02 AM, Markus = Vester <markusvester@aol.com> wrote:
Bob,
looks like some dashes came through here = around 3 UT,=20 see 74 kHz grabber screenshots, or browse 
 
Warren,
meager traces appeared on your QRG around = 23:30. And=20 then maybe for a short period after 5 UT - did you happen to = restart=20 the TX again later?
http://www.df6nm.de/grabber/LF_lastnight.htm
 
On the TA grabs there occured two periods = of purple=20 noise, 21:18 - 22:45 and 3:20 - 4:41. These are caused = by=20 increased data throughput on DCF39. The FSK bursts are very=20 conspicuous on the DM4TR grabber
which is located closer to DCF39. In the top = panel, you=20 can see that there would be useful spectral gaps around 137.765 = kHz=20 (about 10 Hz below the current TA slot), and around 137.63 kHz (70 Hz = below=20 the QRSS-3 center). Note that the frequency scale in the second panel = is=20 currently incorrect. 
 
Best 73,
Markus
(DF6NM in=20 JN59NJ)



--
73 Warren K2ORS
        =  =20       WD2XGJ
          =    =20   WD2XSH/23
              =  =20 WE2XEB/2
               =20 WE2XGR/1

 
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