Delivered-To: daveyxm@virginmedia.com Received: by 10.50.96.198 with SMTP id du6csp121152igb; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 16:05:01 -0800 (PST) X-Received: by 10.180.89.7 with SMTP id bk7mr9988260wib.32.1383523500623; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:05:00 -0800 (PST) Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com. [195.171.43.25]) by mx.google.com with ESMTP id cw7si6618195wjc.165.2013.11.03.16.05.00 for ; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 16:05:00 -0800 (PST) Received-SPF: neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) client-ip=195.171.43.25; Authentication-Results: mx.google.com; spf=neutral (google.com: 195.171.43.25 is neither permitted nor denied by best guess record for domain of owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org) smtp.mail=owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; dkim=pass header.i=@mx.aol.com Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1Vd6yX-00043F-E3 for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:20:57 +0000 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1Vd6yW-000436-L8 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:20:56 +0000 Received: from omr-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.108.134]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtps (TLSv1:AES256-SHA:256) (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1Vd6yT-0002tk-BH for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 03 Nov 2013 23:20:55 +0000 Received: from mtaout-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaout-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.51.197]) by omr-d10.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id 44998700000BF for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 18:20:51 -0500 (EST) Received: from White (95-91-237-85-dynip.superkabel.de [95.91.237.85]) by mtaout-db05.r1000.mx.aol.com (MUA/Third Party Client Interface) with ESMTPA id 13053E0000F8 for ; Sun, 3 Nov 2013 18:20:47 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <19D43F7AF7C641108A3FF8A9928E5241@White> From: "Markus Vester" To: References: <5273ABC1.6060305@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <5273B0EE.5080808@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <5273E755.9030405@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <7160019B86E944CCB69DF5F8A409017A@White> <52743828.1020306@iup.uni-heidelberg.de> <277830AA02F4428AB419D7041A6CF8DB@White> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 00:20:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 12.0.1606 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V12.0.1606 x-aol-global-disposition: G DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1383520851; bh=GlV1dPi+93lcY1vZQBUFAhnw88OtMN3jArY74kRQpSU=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-ID:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=ICAo1yHF+2JQlzwZYjO5/Xc6OJtsOne7a8vOIvGvu4mHyCJ+vDywqWThoLgn0Jugo jvqAqEUIMY3pCImmUZx89N2bdgJHjga2PuAGRRGkAj6RBtW9nWtgPyiDoBdeZ6Tn3a M0h6zLa1hHAo0w5U4A7YkVsBeODUIih00/uzghEU= x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d33c55276da4f620b X-AOL-IP: 95.91.237.85 X-Spam-Score: 0.3 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Today Stefan and I got a long wav recording from Edgar J. Twining, starting 2013-11-01 16 UT, shortly after the potential reception of dashes from DK7FC in Orford, Tasmania. Signals from all three EFR utility transmitters (DCF49, HGA22, DCF39) could be found in the recording. Using the same default samplerate and LO settings that Edgar applies on his grabber, the idle frequency from HGA22 appeared to be centered on 5429.95 Hz audio, which is about 72 mHz lower than expected from the actual transmit frequency. [...] Content analysis details: (0.3 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [205.188.108.134 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.3 PLING_QUERY Subject has exclamation mark and question mark 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: a8364e234bfbc0f3b9b5a81f9f967858 Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania? Yes! Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0016_01CED8F3.B4DFEE30" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.8 required=5.0 tests=HTML_40_50,HTML_MESSAGE, MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME,PLING_QUERY autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 3067 Dies ist eine mehrteilige Nachricht im MIME-Format. ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CED8F3.B4DFEE30 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Today Stefan and I got a long wav recording from Edgar J. Twining, = starting 2013-11-01 16 UT, shortly after the potential reception of = dashes from DK7FC in Orford, Tasmania. Signals from all three EFR = utility transmitters (DCF49, HGA22, DCF39) could be found in the = recording. Using the same default samplerate and LO settings that Edgar = applies on his grabber, the idle frequency from HGA22 appeared to be = centered on 5429.95 Hz audio, which is about 72 mHz lower than expected = from the actual transmit frequency.=20 This offset is in good agreement to the observed -75 mHz offset on the = DK7FC signals, showing that this was indeed a real reception. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 1:59 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania? ... >From my point of view, the best contribution to a "proof" would now be = verifying the receiver's frequency calibration offset. On yesterday's = screenshots, the HGA22 line seemed to be just half a pixel below the = tick. Simply by zooming in on it you could measure the offset much = better, even though the line is spread by some tens of milliHz due to = the FSK modulation. Last year I took some effort to measure HGA's idle = frequency in detail against a calibrated Rubidium source. The result was = 135430.022 Hz, with only very little variation of a milliHz or so (see = attached). ... From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 2:31 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania? Stefan, Edgar, the inset was taken from a local grabber screenshot = http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/df6nm_Eu_131101_1710.jpg, = which was reduced in width to 50% to account for different scrolling = speeds, and aligned horizontally solely by the 15 UT timestamp. The = matching "7" came out as a result afterwards. In my opinion this is a valid detection. It would be very unlikely that = pure noise would produce such a result, and there has not been any = indication of a spurious carrier on this frequency in Orford.=20 The small offset in the frequency calibration (about -75 mHz) is surely = within expected tolerances of the receiver's free running crystal = oscillator. This is in accordance with the Orford HGA spectrum, which = shows the peak also very slightly below the 135430.0 Hz grid line. Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 12:24 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania? Hello Markus, LF! Yes, i saw these 3 dashes (which are "dits" on that QRG and time) in one = line. And if they are from me, it must be the end of the 7. And i was = transmitting the 7 just to that time.=20 Did you place your grabber image overlay onto Edgar's image so it fits = the 3 dashes or did you place it so that the time stamp fits to your = time?=20 If "we" call this a valid ID and detection, then these 16833 km are a = new #3 world record distance on 2200m! (according to = http://136.73.ru/h_qso/index.htm ) Do "we"? Would others agree/disagree? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 01.11.2013 20:11, schrieb Markus Vester:=20 Edgar, Stefan, yes, I think it's there. On the Orford grabber around 15:40 UT, it = looks like four dashes belonging to a "7" and the first dash from the = following "F". Also later perhaps some more bright pixels on the same = (dot) frequency (136171.89 on the RX scale, versus 136171.9625 Hz sent = by Stefan). = http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/edgar_orford_eu_131101_1800_i= nsert.png The time of reception coincided with a period of good SNR from HGA22 = in Orford, whereas DCF39 happened to be in a fade. Congratulations! Guess it's time for the two of you to open up a = bottle! Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) From: Stefan Sch=E4fer=20 Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 6:39 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania? LF,=20 Is there a trace of my signal on that grabber? I can see something, = very weak, and only if you know the frequency and what letter was sent = to which time. But it is close to my QRG, a shift of maybe -35 mHz. The = DFCW element length looks OK and the DFCW shift too. But VERY weak. = Could it be right or am i dreaming? Can someone else see what i mean? = https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101251787/testIDC.html Comments? 73, Stefan/DK7FC Am 01.11.2013 14:47, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20 BTW, Bob... ...did you ever try to leave a trace on the LF grabber of Edgar J. = Twining in Tasmania? We were trying this spring/fall period but, so far, = without success. I will make another attempt today though. The path your you would be that: = http://no.nonsense.ee/qth/map.html?qth=3DFN12LQ&from=3Dqe37wk Not = impossible! A bit shorter than for me and even more hops on sea water = for you! Link to his garbber is: = https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101251787/testIDC.html A suitable mode would be DFCW-180 or QRSS-120. Suitable frequency = 136.173 kHz. Suitable time: -3...+2 hours arround your sunrise! Worth a try! 73, Stefan/DK7FC ------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CED8F3.B4DFEE30 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Today Stefan and I got a long wav = recording=20 from Edgar J. Twining, starting 2013-11-01 16 UT, shortly after the = potential=20 reception of dashes from DK7FC in Orford, Tasmania. Signals from = all three=20 EFR utility transmitters (DCF49, HGA22, DCF39) could be found in = the=20 recording. Using the same default samplerate and LO settings that=20 Edgar applies on his grabber, the idle frequency from=20 HGA22 appeared to be centered on 5429.95 Hz audio, which is = about 72=20 mHz lower than expected from the actual transmit frequency. =
 
This offset is in good = agreement to the=20 observed -75 mHz offset on the DK7FC signals, showing = that this was=20 indeed a real reception.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 
 
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 1:59 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania?

...
From my point of view, the = best contribution=20 to a "proof" would now be verifying the receiver's frequency = calibration=20 offset. On yesterday's screenshots, the HGA22 line seemed to = be just=20 half a pixel below the tick. Simply by zooming in on it you=20 could measure the offset much better, even though the line = is spread=20 by some tens of milliHz due to the FSK modulation. Last year=20 I took some effort to measure HGA's idle frequency in detail = against a=20 calibrated Rubidium source. The result was 135430.022=20 Hz, with only very little variation of a milliHz or so (see=20 attached).
 ...
From: Markus Vester
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 2:31 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania?

Stefan, Edgar,
 
the inset was taken from a local = grabber=20 screenshot http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/df6nm_Eu_131101_1710.jpg= ,=20 which was reduced in = width to 50%=20 to account for different scrolling speeds, and aligned horizontally = solely=20 by the 15 UT timestamp. The matching "7" came out as a result=20 afterwards.
 
In my opinion this is a valid = detection. It would=20 be very unlikely that pure noise would produce such a result, and = there has=20 not been any indication of a spurious carrier on this frequency in = Orford.=20
 
The small offset in the frequency = calibration=20 (about -75 mHz) is surely within expected tolerances of the = receiver's=20 free running crystal oscillator. This is in accordance with = the Orford=20 HGA spectrum, which shows the peak also very slightly below = the=20 135430.0 Hz grid line.
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

From: Stefan = Sch=E4fer
Sent: Saturday, November 02, 2013 12:24 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania?

Hello = Markus,=20 LF!

Yes, i saw these 3 dashes (which are "dits" on that QRG and = time) in=20 one line. And if they are from me, it must be the end of the 7. And i = was=20 transmitting the 7 just to that time.
Did you place your grabber = image=20 overlay onto Edgar's image so it fits the 3 dashes or did you place it = so that=20 the time stamp fits to your time?

If "we" call this a valid ID = and=20 detection, then these 16833 km are a new #3 world record distance = on=20 2200m! (according to http://136.73.ru/h_qso/index.ht= m=20 )
Do "we"? Would others agree/disagree?

73, = Stefan/DK7FC


Am=20 01.11.2013 20:11, schrieb Markus Vester:=20
Edgar, Stefan,
 
yes, I think it's there. On the = Orford=20 grabber around 15:40 UT, it looks like four dashes belonging to a = "7" and=20 the first dash from the following "F". Also later perhaps some=20 more bright pixels on the same (dot) frequency=20 (136171.89 on the RX scale, versus 136171.9625 Hz sent by=20 Stefan).
 
http://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/26404526/edga= r_orford_eu_131101_1800_insert.png   The time of reception coincided with a period of = good SNR from=20 HGA22 in Orford, whereas DCF39 happened to be in a fade.   Congratulations! Guess it's time for the two of you to = open up a=20 bottle!   Best 73, Markus (DF6NM)  

From: Stefan Sch=E4fer
Sent: Friday, November 01, 2013 6:39 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: Tasmania?

LF, =

Is there a=20 trace of my signal on that grabber? I can see something, very weak, = and only=20 if you know the frequency and what letter was sent to which time. But = it is=20 close to my QRG, a shift of maybe -35 mHz. The DFCW element length = looks OK=20 and the DFCW shift too. But VERY weak. Could it be right or am i = dreaming? Can=20 someone else see what i mean? https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101251787/te= stIDC.html
Comments?

73,=20 Stefan/DK7FC

Am 01.11.2013 14:47, schrieb Stefan Sch=E4fer:=20
BTW,=20 Bob...

...did you ever try to leave a trace on the LF grabber = of=20 Edgar J. Twining in Tasmania? We were trying this spring/fall period = but, so=20 far, without success. I will make another attempt today = though.
The path=20 your you would be that: http://no.nonsense.ee/qth/map.html?qth=3DFN12LQ&= amp;from=3Dqe37wk=20 Not impossible! A bit shorter than for me and even more hops on sea = water=20 for you!
Link to his garbber is: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/101251787/te= stIDC.html
A=20 suitable mode would be DFCW-180 or QRSS-120. Suitable frequency = 136.173 kHz.=20 Suitable time: -3...+2 hours arround your sunrise!
Worth a=20 try!

73, = Stefan/DK7FC
------=_NextPart_000_0016_01CED8F3.B4DFEE30--