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From: Bob Raide <rjraide@hotmail.com>
To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Date: Thu, 26 Sep 2013 10:26:05 -0400
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Subject: RE: LF: TA CW?
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Stefan=3B
Your VLF work is the most interesting project!  I saw all your info on the =
web.  I guess there is nowhere else for you to go as you went down to 4 or =
5 kHz.  There must have been some voltage there on that coil!!

I wound my loading coils with number 12 insulated copper solid wire.  Was a=
vailable from contractor friend as they use tons of it as a tracer wire whe=
n they lay plastic water and sewer lines.  The coils run very cool in fact =
just a very small temperature increase and it takes a few hours of operatin=
g to notice any heat in them.  I wound them on sewer pipe [6" PVC] that was=
 scrap pieces from my contractor friend.  I don't know where all the losses=
 are but probably in the ground and surrounding tower and one tree near the=
 tower.=20
I noticed on 500 that the series loading coil is about the same amount of i=
nductance as what is in the pi-net tank.
As you had mentioned my 500 signal is fine.  Even on 137 the amount of indu=
ctance required in the series loading coil is not a tremendous amount more =
than what is in the pi-net tank but more in proportion to that required on =
500 which indicates more top load or taller tower would help the field stre=
ngth significantly on 137 as well. =20
When it comes to 73 kHz I had to add allot more inductance and some "C" to =
ground to hit resonance.  I will show you a pix of the coil arrangement and=
 the large amount of inductance required on 73.  It is certainly due to lac=
k of "C" and more top load would help greatly-I have to figure a way to add=
 more top load-as many top load wires as I can fit.
Bob =20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20
=20

=20
Date: Thu=2C 26 Sep 2013 13:49:10 +0200
From: Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: TA CW?

=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
  =0A=
=0A=
=0A=

=0A=
Am 26.09.2013 02:50=2C schrieb Bob Raide:=0A=
=0A=
  =0A=
  Stefan=3B
=0A=
If you get time can you show me where the sphericas electrode would be=0A=
placed?  Maybe at the ant end?=20
=0A=
  =0A=
=0A=
Add it where you can see it sparking. You can use more simple=0A=
arrangements to prevent arcing though.
=0A=
But preferably i recomment to increase the top load capacity of the=0A=
antenna. This will reduce the voltage and the coil losses. The coil=0A=
losses could be in the range of 30 to 60 % of your total losses i guess.
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
  I have figured you have 10 db on me on 137!  You are=0A=
in here almost every night regardless of conditions!=0A=
=0A=
That is nice. I hope i can hold this situation as long as possible. But=0A=
they are building another building in 30m distance of the antenna. This=0A=
will not improve the situation :-( Sometime everything comes to an end=2C=
=0A=
we know.
=0A=

=0A=
=0A=
  I see pictures of your 9 kHz gear and the land is flat=0A=
and I would bet your soil conductivity is very good.=0A=
=0A=
The 8.97 kHz experiments were done at a different location. This=0A=
location was excellent=2C until they installed a 2 MW wind generator=0A=
there. All experiments were /p=2C so i had no permanent earth system=0A=
installed there. I used a long copper plate and a few earth rods on=0A=
VLF. I a short experiment i transmitted in CW and so i had to add a C=0A=
of 60000 uF (350V) to the PA=2C so the generator just sees an average=0A=
power. There i got 1.7A antenna current on 8.97 kHz in a 300m vertical=0A=
antenna. The signal was audible in 40 km distance which is more than 1=0A=
Lambda. More could have been possible but there were no listeners in=0A=
that sort of distance. But in DFCW-600 i managed to be visible in 4X=2C=0A=
TF=2C EI=2C G=2C F=2C ON=2C PA=2C SP=2C OE=2C I=2C OK and YO. Nice to think=
 back to these=0A=
times :-)
=0A=

=0A=
73=2C Stefan/DK7FC
 		 	   		  =

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<body class=3D'hmmessage'><div dir=3D'ltr'>Stefan=3B<BR>Your&nbsp=3BVLF wor=
k is the most interesting project!&nbsp=3B I saw all your info on the web.&=
nbsp=3B I guess there is nowhere else for you to go as you went down to&nbs=
p=3B4 or 5&nbsp=3BkHz.&nbsp=3B There must have been some voltage there on t=
hat coil!!<BR><br>I wound my&nbsp=3Bloading coils with number 12 insulated =
copper solid wire.&nbsp=3B Was available from contractor friend as they use=
 tons of it as a tracer wire when they lay plastic water and sewer lines.&n=
bsp=3B The coils run very cool in fact just a very&nbsp=3Bsmall temperature=
 increase and&nbsp=3Bit takes a few hours of operating to notice any heat i=
n them.&nbsp=3B I wound them on sewer pipe [6" PVC] that was scrap pieces f=
rom my contractor friend.&nbsp=3B I don't know where all the losses are but=
 probably in the ground and surrounding tower and one tree near the tower. =
<BR>I noticed&nbsp=3Bon 500 that the&nbsp=3Bseries loading coil is about th=
e same amount of inductance as what is in the pi-net tank.<BR>As you had me=
ntioned&nbsp=3Bmy 500 signal is fine.&nbsp=3B Even on 137 the amount of ind=
uctance required in the series loading coil is not&nbsp=3Ba tremendous amou=
nt more than what is in the pi-net tank but more&nbsp=3Bin proportion to th=
at required on 500 which indicates more top load or taller tower would help=
 the field strength significantly on 137 as well.&nbsp=3B <BR>When it comes=
 to 73 kHz I had to add allot more inductance and some "C" to ground to hit=
 resonance.&nbsp=3B I will show you a pix of the coil arrangement and the l=
arge amount of inductance required on 73.&nbsp=3B It is certainly due to la=
ck of "C" and more top load would help greatly-I have to figure a way to ad=
d more top load-as many top load wires as I can fit.<BR>Bob&nbsp=3B <BR>&nb=
sp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=
=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B<BR>&nbsp=3B=
<BR><br>&nbsp=3B<BR><div><hr id=3D"stopSpelling">Date: Thu=2C 26 Sep 2013 1=
3:49:10 +0200<br>From: Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de<br>To: rsgb_lf=
_group@blacksheep.org<br>Subject: Re: LF: TA CW?<br><br>=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
  =0A=
=0A=
=0A=
<br>=0A=
Am 26.09.2013 02:50=2C schrieb Bob Raide:=0A=
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:BLU180-W881F3208A18272645E773DAC280@phx.gbl">=0A=
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  <div dir=3D"ltr">Stefan=3B<br>=0A=
If you get time can you show me where the sphericas electrode would be=0A=
placed?&nbsp=3B Maybe at the ant end? <br>=0A=
  </div>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
Add it where you can see it sparking. You can use more simple=0A=
arrangements to prevent arcing though.<br>=0A=
But preferably i recomment to increase the top load capacity of the=0A=
antenna. This will reduce the voltage and the coil losses. The coil=0A=
losses could be in the range of 30 to 60 % of your total losses i guess.<br=
>=0A=
<br>=0A=
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:BLU180-W881F3208A18272645E773DAC280@phx.gbl">=0A=
  <div dir=3D"ltr">I have figured you have 10 db on me on 137!&nbsp=3B You =
are=0A=
in here almost every night regardless of conditions!</div>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
That is nice. I hope i can hold this situation as long as possible. But=0A=
they are building another building in 30m distance of the antenna. This=0A=
will not improve the situation :-( Sometime everything comes to an end=2C=
=0A=
we know.<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
<blockquote cite=3D"mid:BLU180-W881F3208A18272645E773DAC280@phx.gbl">=0A=
  <div dir=3D"ltr">I see pictures of your 9 kHz gear and the land is flat=
=0A=
and I would bet your soil conductivity is very good.</div>=0A=
</blockquote>=0A=
The 8.97 kHz experiments were done at a different location. This=0A=
location was excellent=2C until they installed a 2 MW wind generator=0A=
there. All experiments were /p=2C so i had no permanent earth system=0A=
installed there. I used a long copper plate and a few earth rods on=0A=
VLF. I a short experiment i transmitted in CW and so i had to add a C=0A=
of 60000 uF (350V) to the PA=2C so the generator just sees an average=0A=
power. There i got 1.7A antenna current on 8.97 kHz in a 300m vertical=0A=
antenna. The signal was audible in 40 km distance which is more than 1=0A=
Lambda. More could have been possible but there were no listeners in=0A=
that sort of distance. But in DFCW-600 i managed to be visible in 4X=2C=0A=
TF=2C EI=2C G=2C F=2C ON=2C PA=2C SP=2C OE=2C I=2C OK and YO. Nice to think=
 back to these=0A=
times :-)<br>=0A=
<br>=0A=
73=2C Stefan/DK7FC<br></div> 		 	   		  </div></body>
</html>=

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