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The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Alan; The vertical portion slopes slightly to the east. The extended zepp is broadside to Europe so ends run SES and NwN. I also have a pair of 120' wires one on each leg about 35' from the zepp so I have alsdo a pair of stubs in them 10' hanging down with vacuum relays in their centers. I end up with a pair of two element beams fed in phase switchable ne/sw and it kicks ass! No spreaders in open line it is about 16 inches apart number 8 stretched tight from tower top to side of garage slopes to east tower west of the house/garage. Will be interesting this winter. It's not going to be easy and will just keep hammering away-73 for now -Bob [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.32 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (rjraide[at]hotmail.com) 1.6 SUBJ_ALL_CAPS Subject is all capitals -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -2.0 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 0bac830672365eda92e91f63ed58b412 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_530454cf-3554-4bbe-9ad0-22289faabe99_" Subject: RE: LF: TA CW? X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE,SUBJ_ALL_CAPS,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false Status: O X-Status: X-Keywords: X-UID: 1684 --_530454cf-3554-4bbe-9ad0-22289faabe99_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Alan=3B The vertical portion slopes slightly to the east. The extended zepp is bro= adside to Europe so ends run SES and NwN. I also have a pair of 120' wires= one on each leg about 35' from the zepp so I have alsdo a pair of stubs in= them 10' hanging down with vacuum relays in their centers. I end up with a= pair of two element beams fed in phase switchable ne/sw and it kicks ass! = No spreaders in open line it is about 16 inches apart number 8 stretched = tight from tower top to side of garage slopes to east tower west of the hou= se/garage. Will be interesting this winter. It's not going to be easy and will just k= eep hammering away-73 for now -Bob =20 From: alan.melia@btinternet.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed=2C 25 Sep 2013 23:23:06 +0100 Subject: Re: LF: TA CW? =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Hi Bob that soundsa terrific location for Europe =0A= sloping away to the East=2C and it sounds like your ground is helpful too. = It is =0A= interesting the well helps though not as much as hoped for......this is the= sort =0A= of thing I mean by diminishing returns. One thought which may not be helpfu= l is =0A= that with a "T" the highest voltage point is then of the top-load=2C So the= =0A= maximum return current is collected underneathe the ends ( from a paper in = =0A= 1926 about the Naun LF station in Germany) that is the point where the =0A= earth mat is most effective. I am guessing from your description that the = =0A= chicken wire covers that region.=0A= =0A= As you were mentioning high RFvoltages...... This =0A= is perhaps where inductive to loading would help as it reduces the voltagea= t the =0A= feed point. The problem is it would not help with your 80m and 160m =0A= transmissions :-)) =0A= =0A= Just I quick thought....I assume from 80m etc use=2C =0A= the top runs N<>S ?? This would probably be the best for Europe on 73 =0A= because an E<>W sloping top would throw most of the signal at a =0A= higher angle in the direction of the top run....to Europe.=0A= Interestingly I think you are geting reception to =0A= the south this may be skywave or a mixture. Skywave seems to predominate be= yond =0A= 700km say 500miles. I think you said the reports were from =0A= 300miles.=0A= =0A= One of our problems was that we were alone in the =0A= UK for a lot of the time we had 73k and 300m would cover most of the active= =0A= stations maybe 12 or 15 at most.=0A= =0A= I am thinking that with a following wind on a good =0A= night you should be copied in Europe. QRSS is easy to generate but is not a= lways =0A= the easiest to identify if it gets chopped up. Also most of the "artifacts"= =0A= produced in the receiver and local to the receiver can look like weak QRSS = =0A= I always found a sheduled frequency move (very small) much easier to spot = =0A= visually and it is why DFCW became so popular (dots and dashes on =0A= different frequencies and no character gaps... only letter and word gaps ..= ..of =0A= course with separation the dots and dashes can become the same length. ..sh= ifts =0A= were often a few tenths of a Hz) It speeds up the transmission a =0A= bit.=0A= =0A= Good Luck=0A= Alan =0A= G3NYK. . =0A= =0A= ----- Original Message ----- =0A= From: =0A= Bob Raide =0A= =0A= To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org =0A= =0A= Sent: Wednesday=2C September 25=2C 2013 8:13 =0A= PM=0A= Subject: RE: LF: TA CW?=0A= =20 =0A= Stefan=3B The voltage is terrible! I can draw a 2.5 inch =0A= flame off the ant input. I am cramped for space to the west as I am only= =0A= 20 feet from the neighbors line. I am on 4 acre lot and room in all =0A= but that one direction. More top loading would be great but also use =0A= this ant for 80 and 160 meters.=20 I have seen the 700' Loran C tower up =0A= close and it uses the three top guys as top loading. It used to wipe out= =0A= all but the 500 kHz band here. I could use 185 and did for awhile =0A= because 137 had terrible splatter from that signal. You can go to google =0A= maps and get a real good shot of this place. Last I looked the =0A= tower shows up and house with cars in driveway even. If not I can take = =0A= couple pix for you. coordinates "NL 42-40-05 =3B WL 77-04-28" =0A= =20 You are probably using a much bigger ant than what I have here. A =0A= couple hundred footer would sure help for 137/73-Bob =20 =0A= =0A= =0A= Date: Wed=2C 25 Sep 2013 15:21:20 +0200 From: =0A= Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de To: =0A= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TA CW? Hi Bob=2C =0A= =20 Am 25.09.2013 03:01=2C schrieb Bob Raide: =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= [...]But only have a 90' high tower and at the top is the =0A= center feed point of my 75 meter double extended zepp. I simply short = =0A= the open wire line which runs almost vertically and fed it with allot = =0A= of inductance in series! I assume the two 150' legs acts as top =0A= loading. Ground system is from my broadcast experience where for field = =0A= intensity surveys 36" wide chicken wire was used with a 100' tower most= =0A= often and a 250 transmitter. Eight 50' chicken wire radials =0A= produced decent field on the midband channels [1000 kHz or so] to =0A= measure from. Here I am using several 150' radials of chicken wire =0A= radials. I hope to stretch some out to 300' but that's going to be =0A= about it at my location.=20 Can you post a link to =0A= some photos showing the tower and environment ?=20 Do you use deep earth =0A= rods additionally to the wire radials? Can you add even more capacitive l= oad =0A= to the top of the tower=2C giving an umbrella antenna. 600 pF=2C as Alan = sais=2C is =0A= nice but not much on 73 kHz and you seem to be voltage limited now (like = me=2C =0A= sometimes :-) ).=20 Some images would be interesting for us i =0A= think. 73=2C Stefan/DK7FC = --_530454cf-3554-4bbe-9ad0-22289faabe99_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Alan=3B
The vertical portion = slopes slightly to the east. =3B The extended zepp is broadside to Euro= pe so ends run =3BSES and NwN. =3B I also have a pair of 120' wires= one on each leg about 35' from the zepp so I have alsdo a pair of stubs in= them 10' hanging down with vacuum relays in their centers. I end =3Bup= with a pair of two element beams fed in phase switchable ne/sw and it kick= s ass! =3B No spreaders in open line it is about 16 inches apart number= 8  =3Bstretched tight from tower top to side of garage slopes to east = tower west of the house/garage.
Will be interesting this winter. =3B= It's not going to be easy and will just keep hammering away-73 for now -Bo= b
 =3B
From: alan.melia@btinternet.c= om
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Date: Wed=2C 25 Sep 2013 23:23:06= +0100
Subject: Re: LF: TA CW?

=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Hi Bob that soundsa terrific location = for Europe =0A= sloping away to the East=2C and it sounds like your ground is helpful too. = It is =0A= interesting the well helps though not as much as hoped for......this is the= sort =0A= of thing I mean by diminishing returns. One thought which may not be helpfu= l is =0A= that with a "T" the highest voltage point is then of the top-load=2C So the= =0A= maximum return current is collected underneathe the ends ( from a paper in&= nbsp=3B =0A= 1926 about the Naun LF station in Germany) =3B that is the point where = the =0A= earth mat is most effective. I am guessing from your description that the = =0A= chicken wire covers that region.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
As you were mentioning high RFvoltages= ...... This =0A= is perhaps where inductive to loading would help as it reduces the voltagea= t the =0A= feed point. The problem is it would not help with your 80m and 160m =0A= transmissions :-)) =3B
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Just I quick thought....I assume from = 80m etc use=2C =0A= the top runs N<=3B>=3BS ?? This would probably be the best for Europe o= n 73 =0A= because an E<=3B>=3BW =3Bsloping top would throw most of the signal= at a =0A= higher angle in the direction of the top run....to Europe.
=0A=
Interestingly I think you are geting r= eception to =0A= the south this may be skywave or a mixture. Skywave seems to predominate be= yond =0A= 700km =3B say 500miles. I think you said the reports were from =0A= 300miles.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
One of our problems was that we were a= lone in the =0A= UK for a lot of the time we had 73k and 300m would cover most of the active= =0A= stations maybe 12 or 15 at most.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
I am thinking that with a following wi= nd on a good =0A= night you should be copied in Europe. QRSS is easy to generate but is not a= lways =0A= the easiest to identify if it gets chopped up. Also most of the "artifacts"= =0A= produced in the receiver and local to the receiver can look like weak QRSS&= nbsp=3B =0A= I always found a sheduled frequency move (very small) much easier to spot = =0A= visually and it is why DFCW became so popular =3B (dots and dashes on = =0A= different frequencies and no character gaps... only letter and word gaps ..= ..of =0A= course with separation the dots and dashes can become the same length. ..sh= ifts =0A= were often a few tenths of a Hz) It speeds up the transmission a =0A= bit.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Good Luck
=0A=
Alan
=0A=
G3NYK. =3B =3B.
= =0A=
=0A=
----- Original Message -----
=0A=
From: =0A= Bob = Raide =0A=
=0A= =0A=
Sent: Wednesday=2C September 25=2C 2013 8:13 =0A= PM
=0A=
Subject: RE: LF: TA CW?
=0A=

=0A=
Stefan=3B
The voltage is terrible! =3B I can draw= a 2.5 inch =0A= flame off the ant input. =3B I am cramped for space to the west as I = am only =0A= 20 feet from the neighbors line. =3B =3BI am on 4 acre lot and ro= om in all =0A= but that one direction. =3B More top loading would be great but also = use =0A= this ant for 80 and 160 meters. =3B
I have seen the 700' Loran C t= ower up =0A= close and it uses the three top guys as top loading. =3B It used to w= ipe out =0A= all but the 500 kHz band here. =3B I could use =3B185 and did for= awhile =0A= because 137 had terrible splatter from that signal.
You can go to goog= le =0A= maps =3Band get a real good shot of this place. =3B Last I looked= the =0A= tower shows up and house with cars in driveway even. =3B If not I can= take =0A= couple pix for you. =3B coordinates "NL 42-40-05 =3B WL 77-04-28"&nbs= p=3B =0A=
You are probably using a much bigger ant than what I have here. = =3B A =0A= couple hundred footer would sure help for 137/73-Bob
 =3B
=0A=
=0A=
=0A= Date: Wed=2C 25 Sep 2013 15:21:20 +0200
From: =0A= Stefan.Schaefer@iup.uni-heidelberg.de
To: =0A= rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: Re: LF: TA CW?

Hi Bob=2C = =0A=

Am 25.09.2013 03:01=2C schrieb Bob Raide: =0A=
=0A= =0A= =0A=
[...]But only have a 90' high tower and at the top is = the =0A= center feed point of my 75 meter double extended zepp. =3B I simply= short =0A= the open wire line which runs almost vertically =3Band fed it with = allot =0A= of inductance in series! =3BI assume the two 150' legs acts as top = =0A= loading. =3BGround system is from my broadcast experience where for= field =0A= intensity surveys 36" wide =3Bchicken wire was used with a 100' tow= er most =0A= often and a 250 transmitter. =3B =3BEight 50' chicken wire radi= als =0A= produced decent =3Bfield on the midband channels [1000 kHz or so] t= o =0A= measure from. =3B Here I am using several 150' radials of chicken w= ire =0A= radials. =3B I hope to stretch some out to 300' but that's going to= be =0A= about it at my location.

Can you post a link= to =0A= some photos showing the tower and environment ?

Do you use deep e= arth =0A= rods additionally to the wire radials? Can you add even more capacitive l= oad =0A= to the top of the tower=2C giving an umbrella antenna. 600 pF=2C as Alan = sais=2C is =0A= nice but not much on 73 kHz and you seem to be voltage limited now (like = me=2C =0A= sometimes :-) ).
Some images would be interesting for us i =0A= think.

73=2C Stefan/DK7FC
=
= --_530454cf-3554-4bbe-9ad0-22289faabe99_--