Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id CD55D3800009D; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 18:56:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UnGQP-0007lE-TE for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:55:25 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UnGQP-0007l5-6i for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:55:25 +0100 Received: from blu0-omc1-s11.blu0.hotmail.com ([65.55.116.22]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UnGQM-0002dN-AD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Jun 2013 23:55:24 +0100 Received: from BLU177-W41 ([65.55.116.9]) by blu0-omc1-s11.blu0.hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(6.0.3790.4675); Thu, 13 Jun 2013 15:55:20 -0700 X-TMN: [5aZHOd0CS7d+VLvbK4cvd8qjxu7vm/rr] X-Originating-Email: [hellozerohellozero@hotmail.com] Message-ID: From: Laurence KL1 X To: "rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org" Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 14:55:19 -0800 Importance: Normal In-Reply-To: <003d01ce682a$a597b0a0$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> References: ,<003d01ce682a$a597b0a0$6401a8c0@JAYDELL> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 13 Jun 2013 22:55:20.0276 (UTC) FILETIME=[146C1940:01CE6889] X-Spam-Score: -0.4 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Jay/Stefan thanks for the comments - Yes - I had to really be careful with Code on this - the main meter feeds directly into the 2 x 2phase 100A breakers and went thru the wall, one direct to one breaker panel for the non essentials and another via a generator transfer switch to the right of all this lot then onto the Eeesntial services panel in the garage. The meter used to have a "Turtle" RF pulsing device but it was causing LF MF QRM and I managed to persuade the electrical Co to remove it and now they still read the meter visually [...] Content analysis details: (-0.4 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [65.55.116.22 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (hellozerohellozero[at]hotmail.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -0.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 3df6620ae1cf83b986cf2fc02407da16 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="_f4026c80-f0da-4bed-89cd-eff300284694_" Subject: LF: Re: Whole house EMC/I filtering - Corcom 200 A 3 phase Y X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.0 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_HOTMAIL_RCVD, HTML_MESSAGE,TO_ADDRESS_EQ_REAL autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-DMARC: mtain-mc06.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : hotmail.com ; policy : none ; result : F x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604e51ba4e2e7e56 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none --_f4026c80-f0da-4bed-89cd-eff300284694_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Jay/Stefan thanks for the comments -=20 =20 Yes - I had to really be careful with Code on this - the main meter feeds d= irectly into the 2 x 2phase 100A breakers and went thru the wall=2C one dir= ect to one breaker panel for the non essentials and another via a generator= transfer switch to the right of all this lot then onto the Eeesntial servi= ces panel in the garage. The meter used to have a "Turtle" RF pulsing devic= e but it was causing LF MF QRM and I managed to persuade the electrical Co= to remove it and now they still read the meter visually =20 I didnt have the energy or the resources to recable back from either two lo= cations direct obviating the need to come into the same breaker box - so as= you look at the Gray filter box the output cabling is at the top of the f= ilter and short run back up the ( 2 1/4)conduit and out using the existing = (non connectorized) cabling. Its not ideal I know and there will be some ca= pacitive and small inductive affects but I was aiming at LF and a band eith= er side of it I dont think its going to be large. =20 Youll also notice the filters are designed for 3 phase Y and not 2 phase = AND my neutral is bonded to Earth in the breaker box too. I did pony up for= a thicker and less inductance earth connection to the spaced rods located = beneath the boxes to improve the "RF" coupling/shunting to Earth at this po= int.=20 =20 http://www.kl7uk.com/Corcom.jpg =20 Linked are the specs for the Corcom 200A filter - they are still available = for 700 USD each or Eee Bay (yikes)=2C but I offered him 100 USD and he too= k it. Just had to add the pack mule costs to get them to Alaska. The weigh= t of the filters and the UL Electrical enclosure is something like 85 pound= s and is supported on the frame which is bolted to the concrete beneath. Al= l hardware was stainless - and lots of Petronox style gray stuff for the Al= u connections =20 http://www.kl7uk.com/Corcom2.jpg =20 =20 In addition to this=2C the house has further single and 2 phase Corcoms on = the 20A breakered outlets to the radio room -=20 =20 I think if I was/were in a concreted blocked=2C rebar earth facility it wou= ld now be darned internally quiet but as I live in a ranch style open to ev= erything RF wise Im still getting some QRM from the house and overhead supp= ly some 150m away - but conductive noise (which Im assuming was coming up t= he "mains supply") and being reradiated has been attenuated - just dont ask= me how much=2C but at least Ive added a high impedance point :-) I can se= e an improvement in VLF by some 5dB to date from 5kHz upwards and Im workin= g on MF and LF but we appear to have a large thunderhead nearby which is ma= king measurement difficult. =20 Regards Laurence KL 1 X=20 =20 From: jrusgrove@comcast.net To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu=2C 13 Jun 2013 07:39:21 -0400 Subject: LF: Re: Whole house EMC/I filtering =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= Laurence=0A= =0A= Would like more info on the filters as well as =0A= performance. =0A= =0A= Guess the best arrangement would be to go directly =0A= from the meter into a separate box that houses a 'mains' breaker and the = =0A= filters ... then out of that box into the existing 'mains' and 'sub' =0A= breaker box ... with no sharing of conduit. What config are those =0A= filters? Have often eyed the large isolation transformers for sale on ebay = for =0A= potential use as a ' whole house' filter. Would be interesting to compare = =0A= the effectiveness of various types. =0A= = --_f4026c80-f0da-4bed-89cd-eff300284694_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Jay/Stefan thanks =3Bfor the= comments -
 =3B
Yes - I had to really be careful with Code on t= his - the =3Bmain meter =3Bfeeds =3Bdirectly into the 2 x 2phas= e 100A breakers and went thru the wall=2C one direct to one =3Bbreaker = panel for the non essentials and another via a generator =3Btransfer sw= itch to the right of all this lot then onto the Eeesntial =3Bservices p= anel in the garage. The meter used to have a "Turtle" RF pulsing device but= it was causing =3B LF =3BMF QRM and I managed to persuade the elec= trical Co to remove it and now they still read the meter visually
 = =3B
I didnt have the energy or the resources to recable back from either= two locations =3Bdirect =3Bobviating the need to come into the&nbs= p=3Bsame breaker =3Bbox - so as you look at the =3B Gray filter box= the output cabling is at the top of the filter and short run back up the (= 2 1/4)conduit =3Band =3Bout using the existing (non connectorized)= cabling. Its not ideal I know and there will be some capacitive and small = inductive affects but I was aiming at LF and a band either side of it I don= t think its going to be large.
 =3B
 =3BYoull also notice the= filters are designed for 3 phase =3B Y and not 2 phase AND my neutral = is bonded to Earth in the breaker box too. I did pony up for a thicker and = less inductance earth connection to the spaced rods located beneath the box= es to improve the "RF" coupling/shunting to Earth at this point.
 = =3B
http://www.kl7uk.com/Cor= com.jpg
 =3B
Linked are the specs =3Bfor the Corcom 200A = filter =3B- they are still =3Bavailable for 700 USD =3Beach or = Eee Bay (yikes)=2C but I offered him =3B100 USD and he took it. =3B= Just had to add the pack mule costs to get them to Alaska. =3B The weig= ht of the filters and the UL Electrical enclosure is something like 85 poun= ds and is supported on the frame which is =3Bbolted to the concrete ben= eath. All hardware was stainless - and lots of Petronox style gray stuff fo= r the Alu connections
 =3B
http://www.kl7uk.com/Corcom2.jpg
 =3B
 =3B
In a= ddition to this=2C the house has further =3Bsingle and 2 phase =3BC= orcoms on the =3B20A breakered outlets to the radio room -
 =3B=
I think if I was/were in a concreted blocked=2C rebar earth facility it= would now be darned internally quiet but as I live in a ranch style open t= o =3Beverything RF wise Im still getting some QRM from the house and ov= erhead supply =3Bsome 150m away - but conductive noise (which Im assumi= ng was =3Bcoming up the "mains =3Bsupply") and being reradiated&nbs= p=3Bhas been attenuated - just dont ask me how much=2C but at least Ive add= ed a high impedance point :-) =3B I can see an improvement in VLF by so= me 5dB to date from 5kHz upwards and Im working on MF and LF but we appear = to have a large thunderhead nearby which is making measurement difficult. =3B
Regards
Laurence KL 1 X =3B
 =3B
From: jrusgrove@comcast.net
To: rsgb_lf_group@blackshe= ep.org
Date: Thu=2C 13 Jun 2013 07:39:21 -0400
Subject: LF: Re: Whole= house EMC/I filtering

=0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A= =0A=
Laurence
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Would like more info on the filters as= well as =0A= performance.
=0A=
 =3B
=0A=
Guess the best arrangement would be to= go directly =0A= from the meter into a separate box that houses a 'mains' breaker =3Band= the =0A= filters ... then out of that box into the existing =3B'mains' and 'sub'= =0A= breaker box =3B... with no sharing of conduit. =3BWhat config are&n= bsp=3Bthose =0A= filters? Have often eyed the large isolation transformers for sale on ebay = for =0A= potential use as a =3B' whole house' filter. Would be interesting to co= mpare =0A= the effectiveness of various types. =3B
=0A=
 =3B
=
= --_f4026c80-f0da-4bed-89cd-eff300284694_--