Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-da05.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 74675380000DC; Sat, 6 Apr 2013 17:59:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UOb82-0007IO-PT for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 22:58:30 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UOb82-0007IF-0v for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 22:58:30 +0100 Received: from smtpout3.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.59] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UOb7z-0002Mg-8Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 22:58:28 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.46.127]) by mwinf5d35 with ME id Lly41l0062keN9603ly4dj; Sat, 06 Apr 2013 23:58:05 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <122E7FDB629A419F812E13FCF3EAF6BD@AGB> <1B78A630D31B4549BDCC602762707068@AGB> <993A77CEFEDD48F2823CA7CBA5C07785@PcMinto> In-Reply-To: <993A77CEFEDD48F2823CA7CBA5C07785@PcMinto> Date: Sat, 6 Apr 2013 22:58:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 0.0 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Ok Minto Yes this is the Q not Q or what ever connection to the A/d http://mikikg.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rtl2832u-dc-mods.pdf [...] Content analysis details: (0.0 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.59 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 405bb9dcd45b6481736dcdaf249e9285 Subject: =?UTF-8?Q?Re:_LF:_Re:_=C2=A310_Dongel-SDR__Dire?= =?UTF-8?Q?ct_sample_on_504_KHz_-_S/N__TEST?= =?UTF-8?Q?_?= Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00C7_01CE331A.31DA7610" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: * X-Spam-Status: No, hits=1.0 required=5.0 tests=HTML_30_40,HTML_FONTCOLOR_BLUE, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d404d51609aca2ba5 X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01CE331A.31DA7610 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Ok Minto=20 Yes this is the Q not Q or what ever connection to the A/d =20 http://mikikg.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rtl2832u-dc-mods.pdf As to improvement's , ive no idea ! , but you note the coupling = C are both removed , the gain from the mini-whip my well be = enough to 'tip the balance' but s/n for data is more important = than 'peak signal level' so gain (lots) may not be the holy = grail , I did copy nav text at 100% from the south of Uk , audio = level was very low , but at a good s/n. =20 [ Gary's point , yes could switch , but I have the impression , more = could be gained by using the balanced feed as in the link = above , you can run 2 dongles in the same pc as the usb = location seems to be part of the driver addressing=20 There is 'no' gain in the A/D , to day , the racal ra6790 = produced a S3 / 4 cw copy from 0.1 uV , as can be seen from the = s-lab shot , but a low noise pre-amp would solve the problem and = with no additional mixer , IMD should be much reduced , night = time HF was quite reasonable , left it on 14,103 with the 40ft = vertical, returned after dinner and had missed Iceland with -8dB = signal .. typical ! =20 The mixer in the dongle cannot have much dynamic range , = compared to one designed for 'HF , eg the ra1769 first mixer = is fed with 5 to 7 watts of RF to ensure minimal transit times = and over 120 dB dynamic range , this could be a contributing = factor to any 'strange patterns , which must be aggravated by = having two mixers in the rf path - one may be 'good' but the = e4000 may not be , where as the a/d seems to be quite clean=20 You have the same item I have hacked for MF , showing in the = driver list as generic , the other is the original ezeycap as per = the first posts ... When you say the vhf/uhf is 'low' that's = odd as I would say this one (ezy) is as good as the ft897d on = 2/70 and on 4 meters , its better than the spectrum trans V , = using HDSDR =20 But the main thing is , it put's a reasonable set-up in a very = affordable price , will be interesting to see the performance = ,D/S linked to the mini-whip , may be the only way round the = large carrier problem will be filtering , or a move to a = better a/d , at least any pre-amps and filters are transferable = , should a better A/D be used at a future data ? 73 -G.=20 From: Minto Witteveen=20 Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:15 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: LF: Re: =C2=A310 Dongel-SDR Direct sample on 504 KHz - S/N TEST = I have been experimenting too with an RTL-SDR dongle now for a few = weeks. I currently use a transverter to listen to lf/mf/hf. This = transverter upshifts the spectrum with 100 MHz. Although the RTL-DSR is rather deaf when used on 2m or 70 cm (compared = to my ham equipment) when used for HF it is sensitive enough with a = pa0rdt active antenna. I can also use it on 472. But there I have to use my 472 KHz narrow band = filter to keep out mf, especially Radio Mario @ 675 Khz. And although = the dynamic range is not stellar, as far as I can determine reception = on 472 is very comparable to my ft817.. Grahams pointer to the direct sampling option got me interested. Time to = let the nice people from dealextreme send me another on for EUR 10 so I = can =E2=80=98experiment=E2=80=99 with it. Some interesting websites/video=E2=80=99s about the direct sampling = implementation: http://ttrftech.tumblr.com/post/36283680013/rtl2832u-dongle-mods-for-7mhz= -reception-with-gqrx and http://mikikg.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/prepravka-dvb-t-usb-prijemnika-sa-= rtl2832u-za-hf-0-28mhz/ First site is in Japanese, second in Croatian, but Google (translate) is = your friend. It is very nice to get an instant overview of 2 MHz of spectrum. I have = been plagued by ever increasing QRM here, which forced me to place a = magnetic loop antenna in my backyard to get any reception at all. QRM = now is S9+10 dB form 100 KHz to nearly 50 MHz. I have not been able to = find out what causes this (not generated in my house). See attached = screenshot for a part of the spectrum around 80 meters. This wavy = pattern can be seen everywhere from nearly DC to 50 MHz, with some clean = area=E2=80=99s in between. Sometimes the QRM stops waving =E2=80=93 = straight lines for several seconds and then the waving restarts. I am very jealous of other hams showing waterfall patters where = everything between real signals is dark blue... :-( Anybody ANY idea what might cause this kind of QRM?=20 73=E2=80=99s Minto pa3bca -------------------------------------------------------------------------= - Ceterum censeo Carthaginem delendam esse From: Gary - G4WGT=20 Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 19:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: =C2=A310 Dongel-SDR Direct sample on 504 KHz - S/N TEST = Graham, Maybe then....if the PCB was installed in a small aluminium box the = capacitor could be removed & a switch fitted to select the original = (VHF) arrangement or the HF/LF method. Possibly fit a pre-amp also. 73, Gary - G4WGT. ------=_NextPart_000_00C7_01CE331A.31DA7610 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Ok  Minto
 
Yes this  is the  Q not Q or  what  ever =20 connection  to the  A/d 
 
h= ttp://mikikg.files.wordpress.com/2012/08/rtl2832u-dc-mods.pdf
 
As to improvement's  , ive no idea  ! ,   but = you =20 note the   coupling   C  are  both =20 removed , the  gain from the  mini-whip  my  = well =20 be  enough to  'tip the  balance'  but   = s/n =20 for  data  is  more  important  than  = 'peak signal=20 level'   so  gain (lots)  may  not be = the =20 holy  grail , I did  copy  nav text  at 100% from = the =20 south  of  Uk , audio  level  was  very low , = but =20 at a  good s/n. 
 
[ Gary's  point , yes could  switch , but  I have = the =20 impression , more  could  be  gained  by  = using =20 the  balanced  feed  as  in the  link above , = you =20 can  run  2  dongles  in  the  same  = pc =20 as  the  usb  location  seems  to  = be  part=20 of the  driver  addressing
 
There  is  'no'  gain in the  A/D , to  = day =20 , the   racal  ra6790  produced  a  S3 / = 4 =20 cw  copy  from  0.1 uV  , as  can be  seen = from=20 the  s-lab shot , but  a low noise  pre-amp  = would =20 solve the  problem and  with  no   = additional =20 mixer  , IMD should  be   much  reduced =20 , night time  HF was  quite  reasonable ,=20 left  it  on   14,103  with the  40ft =  vertical, returned  after  dinner  and   = had=20 missed  Iceland  with  -8dB  signal .. typical=20 !   
 
The  mixer  in  the  dongle  cannot =20 have  much  dynamic  range  , compared = to one =20 designed  for  'HF   , eg  the  = ra1769 =20 first  mixer  is fed  with   5  to 7 = watts =20 of  RF to  ensure minimal  transit  times  = and =20 over  120 dB  dynamic  range ,  this  = could =20 be  a contributing factor  to  any  'strange = patterns =20 , which  must  be  aggravated  by =20 having  two  mixers  in the  rf  = path =20 -  one may  be  'good'  but  the =20 e4000   may  not  be , where  as  = the =20 a/d  seems  to  be  quite  clean
 
You have the  same  item I have  hacked  = for  MF ,=20 showing  in the  driver  list as  generic , = the =20 other  is the  original ezeycap  as per the  = first =20 posts  ... When  you  say  the  vhf/uhf  = is =20 'low'  that's  odd  as  I would  say  = this =20 one  (ezy)  is  as  good  as the  = ft897d on=20 2/70  and on 4  meters  , its  better  than = the =20 spectrum  trans V  , using  HDSDR 
 
But  the  main thing  is , it  put's  a=20 reasonable   set-up   in a very  affordable  = price ,=20 will  be  interesting  to  see  the =20 performance  ,D/S linked to the  mini-whip  ,  may = be=20 the  only  way  round the  large  carrier  = problem  will  be   filtering  , or  = a  move=20 to  a better  a/d  , at  least  any =20 pre-amps  and  filters  are  transferable  ,=20 should  a  better   A/D be  used  at  = a =20 future  data  ?
 
73 -G.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From: Minto Witteveen
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 10:15 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org= =20
Subject: LF: Re: =C2=A310 Dongel-SDR Direct sample on 504 = KHz - S/N TEST=20

I have been experimenting too with an RTL-SDR dongle now = for a few=20 weeks. I currently use a transverter to listen to lf/mf/hf. This = transverter=20 upshifts the spectrum with 100 MHz.
Although the RTL-DSR is rather = deaf when=20 used on 2m or 70 cm (compared to my ham equipment) when used for HF it = is=20 sensitive enough with a pa0rdt active antenna.
I can also use it on = 472. But=20 there I have to use my 472 KHz narrow band filter to keep out mf, = especially=20 Radio Mario @ 675 Khz. And although the dynamic range is not stellar, as = far as=20 I can determine  reception = on 472 is=20 very comparable to my ft817..
Grahams pointer to the direct sampling = option=20 got me interested. Time to let the nice people from dealextreme send me = another=20 on for EUR 10 so I can =E2=80=98experiment=E2=80=99 with = it.

Some=20 interesting websites/video=E2=80=99s about the direct sampling=20 implementation:
http://ttrftech.tumblr.com/post/36283680013/rtl2832u-dongl= e-mods-for-7mhz-reception-with-gqrx
and
http://mikikg.wordpress.com/2012/08/22/prepravka-dvb-t-usb= -prijemnika-sa-rtl2832u-za-hf-0-28mhz/

First site is in Japanese, second in Croatian, but Google = (translate) is your friend.

It is very nice to get an instant overview of 2 MHz of = spectrum. I=20 have been plagued by ever increasing QRM here, which forced me to place = a=20 magnetic loop antenna in my backyard to get any reception at all. QRM = now is=20 S9+10 dB form 100 KHz to nearly 50 MHz. I have not been able to find out = what=20 causes this (not generated in my house). See attached screenshot for a = part of=20 the spectrum around 80 meters. This =20 wavy pattern can be seen everywhere from nearly DC to 50 MHz, = with some=20 clean area=E2=80=99s in between. Sometimes the QRM stops waving = =E2=80=93 straight lines for=20 several seconds and then the waving = restarts.

I am very jealous of other hams showing waterfall patters = where=20 everything between real signals is dark blue... :-(

Anybody ANY idea what might cause this kind of QRM?=20

73=E2=80=99s Minto = pa3bca

 
-------------------------------------------------------------------= -------
Ceterum=20 censeo Carthaginem delendam esse
 
Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2013 19:55
Subject: Re: LF: =C2=A310 Dongel-SDR Direct sample on 504 = KHz - S/N TEST=20
 
Graham,
 
Maybe then....if the PCB was installed = in a small=20 aluminium box the capacitor could be removed & a switch fitted to = select the=20 original (VHF) arrangement or the HF/LF method. Possibly fit a pre-amp=20 also.
 
73, Gary - G4WGT.
 
 
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