Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mc02.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 52B0538000090; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 15:36:31 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UQNH2-0000tP-GM for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:35:08 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UQNH0-0000tG-R0 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:35:06 +0100 Received: from smtpout4.wanadoo.co.uk ([80.12.242.68] helo=smtpout.wanadoo.co.uk) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UQNGx-0005XX-8G for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:35:05 +0100 Received: from AGB ([2.26.14.177]) by mwinf5d48 with ME id Njah1l00D3pCGVu03jahaG; Thu, 11 Apr 2013 21:34:42 +0200 Message-ID: From: "Graham" To: References: <0D5F8C81FCD24061BCDE1F5E2C9785E7@AGB> <1365633794.18069.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <1365673624.52897.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <7B14049AB0084B3EB5BA4E6BB153ECB8@AGB> <1365679082.78051.YahooMailNeo@web133205.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5166A72E.8080908@aol.com> <1365693636.38927.YahooMailNeo@web133204.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <5166F8AC.8030304@aol.com> <1365704237.75794.YahooMailNeo@web133203.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> <797429556B5941649E1509009C13052A@AGB> <1365706611.21782.YahooMailNeo@web133201.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> In-Reply-To: <1365706611.21782.YahooMailNeo@web133201.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2013 20:34:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Importance: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Windows Live Mail 14.0.8117.416 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V14.0.8117.416 X-Spam-Score: 2.2 (++) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Henlow ? Most most of them ended up at raf sealand .. some are still there ! Its early days yet , have etched some rocks in the past , this will be a bit of a trial run, the xtals are no use now as the qrg as soon to be swamped in wide band nose , or so we are told , [...] Content analysis details: (2.2 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [80.12.242.68 listed in list.dnswl.org] 2.2 TVD_SUBJ_ACC_NUM Subject has spammy looking monetary reference 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message X-Scan-Signature: 4c27c4b58a4bf8994849e67fc4259288 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00CE_01CE36F3.FE50E3F0" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: *** X-Spam-Status: No, hits=3.4 required=5.0 tests=AMATEUR_PORN,HTML_40_50, HTML_MESSAGE,MISSING_OUTLOOK_NAME autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d604a516710be40aa X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01CE36F3.FE50E3F0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Henlow ? Most most of them ended up at raf sealand .. some are still = there ! Its early days yet , have etched some rocks in the past , this = will be a bit of a trial run, the xtals are no use now as the = qrg as soon to be swamped in wide band nose , or so we are = told ,=20 But from what im told , these are the gold flashed , wire connected = types , so until we see if its possible to gain access , = there's no panic =20 mfg facility .. suppose , then number of xtals used in the kit , = then that would of made sense back then .. and what a handy = 'facility' =20 73 -G.. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:56 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz Graham Been reading the mail on Yahoo. Before you start attacking those xtals its best to find an expert. For = these reasons. a/ Crystal grinding is a specialised art. It requires the xtal to be = perfectly parallel b/ If you don't do the full process like grinding, polishing and etching = the xtal will "age" and at some point will jump frequency or stop all = together. c/ Etching alone is OK for very small shifts but will attack the edges = of the xtal so it won't be flat and it will become less active and again = can stop. I am not sure of my facts but if you just grind it creates a condition = like when plaster comes away from the wall. The abrasion creates = subsurface cracking so it is necessary to etch this away otherwise it = will jump or stop. What I am trying to say is that serious xtal grinding needs to be done = in the proper process. Granted a small shift can be done. I am sure = loads of hams have done it and got away with it but it may pay to find = an "Expert" to help. The local RAF camp at Henlow had a Quartz Xtal manufacturing facility = years ago and one of the people there was G4ALR. He doesn't have his = e-mail on QRZ but I may be able to get it. I think he is an "expert" in = the field. If you like I will chase him for info? 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 19:21 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz BOGOF : )) From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:17 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz Pat there's something up with your e-mail because it keeps sending the = same thing twice? i.e. two e-mails for the price of one. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: pat To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: M0FMT =20 Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 18:53 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz Well, you might have been happy, Pete. I discovered that the family = cat's whiskers wouldn't work with a bit of coke and we had to go back to = a pair of baked bean cans and string! On 11/04/13 16:20, M0FMT wrote: And we all live in a hole in the road but we were happy!!.....:0) 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: pat mailto:g4gvw@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: M0FMT mailto:m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk=20 Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 13:06 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 = KHz And Wireless Set No.17 for =A32:19:6 (2Volt accumulator and HT = Battery 10/- extra) And we're all getting older! 73=20 On 11/04/13 12:18, M0FMT wrote: Hi Graham How young you are my introduction to Tottenham Court Road = (Proops?) , Lisles Street (GW Smiths), Charring Cross and The Edgeware = Road about 1956. Aaaaah those were the days. learnt a lot about Radio, = Life, the Universe and everything there...... hee! Got my R107 from Lisle Street with money save from my = apprentices pay. Carried it (abt 1 CWT) via bus to Kings Cross in the = days when the conductor would jump off the bus and give you had to get = it on board........ imagine that on a "Bendy Bus" today. See = http://www.retinascope.co.uk/lislestreet.html for the full story. OK on the stick info yes but I am CW only really can't get too = excited about sterile data although as you know I do partake = occasionally. 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 11:52 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz=20 R Pete=20 Well , its possible to use the emergency vfo , but that = results in a very unstable signal , I remember down the Tottenham = court road , there where tea chests of crystals , but that was 1970 = .. seems a lot of the traditional firms have closed ,=20 One of the =A35 dds with a driver would work , but = they want to keep it standard=20 DS - That's really the 'correct' situation , that = -33 db decode, -3 db lower than normal was a good indication = that the system is working , over ranging the a/d is the only = problem . I think dynamic range is 60 d b after processing , is it = 3 db per bit ? 8 bits , 24 db + 3 that's 27 dB ? 500:1 ? , = but by removing qty 2 mixers and 2 oscillators , [ may be = 3 oscillators 1 , hf-up-conv 2 , pll conv osc 3 ref osc ) that = is a lot of noise + jitter removed from the signal path as well = as imd from 2 mixers , I found a attenuator helped for mw and = I have a mw-filter , which cleaned up sw bands ...... nice to = have a panoramic display , 2 mhz this time , the ra17 was 1 mhz = and 28 valves + 20 ish > in the radio =20 73-G. From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:47 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz=20 OK Graham Thought it was home brew retro.......... I am in that mode = and think everbody else is! What do you do at the moment inject a Sig = Genny? Have you checked the net or checked out Vincent - QuartzLab = etc?=20 Anyway what's that master osc circuit. I build from old = RADCOM (pre 1975 when they published real amateur radio) and PW,QST = etal. I use modern xtals with no known issues. Well trying to get third = overtone for 10m not to chirp is an issue with me at the moment.=20 OK yes got a stick on its way didn't want to tear up my = existing upconverter design. But not sure there is much wrong with the = UC approach it works for me. But want to try the direct approach. Do you = get much Cross mod and IM products? 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Thursday, 11 April 2013, 0:47 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz=20 Ok Pete=20 Q where to have them made ?=20 The set , Marconi Ocean span 1950's valve tx needs = the big rock's as the oscillator pass's quite a lot of power = via them ...hc6u are no good , drive level is very low - the ones = fitted are the wired- gold flashed ones , so cannot etch into the = band ...=20 the gang want to keep it standard=20 73 -G.=20 Ps waiting for qty-3 =A36 dongles : ) From: M0FMT=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:43 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz=20 Hi=20 If you want to spend a small fortune get them cut. However = build a Mixer VXO from El cheapo standard xtals and or old PMR rocks. = Then at your next rally buy a couple of Screw together 10xj or FT243 = rocks of any frequency and put the El-cheapo xtals inside. And Hey = Presto you have Retro rocks. I have a small all valve 472 tx that uses 6.00 = -6.472=3D0.472 vxo-able a couple of kc/s 12ax7-6am6-6cl6=3D 4wattso/p. = Local QRP rig. Hope this helps 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Sent: Wednesday, 10 April 2013, 20:30 Subject: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz=20 Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75 KHz =20 Q Is there any manufacture of crystals in this = range ? Or Surplus items available =20 QTY 1 or 2 off =20 TNX- Graham G0NBD --=20 73 de pat g4gvw es gd dx qth nr Felixstowe East Coast UK --=20 73 de pat g4gvw es gd dx qth nr Felixstowe East Coast UK ------=_NextPart_000_00CE_01CE36F3.FE50E3F0 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Henlow ?
 
Most  most  of them  ended  up  at  = raf =20 sealand  .. some are still  there  !
 
Its early  days  yet ,  have  etched  = some =20 rocks  in the  past , this  will  be a  bit of = a =20 trial  run,   the  xtals  are no  use now = as =20 the  qrg  as  soon to  be  swamped  in = wide=20 band  nose  , or so  we  are  told ,
 
But from  what  im told , these are  the  = gold =20 flashed , wire connected  types  , so  until  we = see =20 if  its possible  to  gain access  , there's  = no =20 panic 
 
mfg facility ..  suppose , then  number  of =20 xtals  used  in the  kit  , then that  = would =20 of  made  sense  back  then  .. and  = what =20 a  handy 'facility' 
 
73 -G..

From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:56 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75=20 KHz

Graham
 
Been reading the mail on Yahoo.
 
Before you start attacking those xtals its best to find an = expert.=20 For these reasons.
 
a/ Crystal grinding is a specialised art. It requires the = xtal to be=20 perfectly parallel
b/ If you don't do the full process like grinding, polishing = and=20 etching the xtal will "age" and at some point will jump frequency or = stop all=20 together.
c/ Etching alone is OK for very small shifts but will attack = the=20 edges of the xtal so it won't be flat and it will become less active and = again=20 can stop.
 
I am not sure of my facts but if you just grind it creates a=20 condition like when plaster comes away from the wall. The abrasion = creates=20 subsurface cracking so it is necessary to etch this away otherwise it = will jump=20 or stop.
 
What I am trying to say is that serious xtal grinding = needs to=20 be done in the proper process. Granted a small shift can be done. I am = sure=20 loads of hams have done it and got away with it but it may pay to find = an=20 "Expert" to help.
The local RAF camp at Henlow had a Quartz Xtal = manufacturing=20 facility years ago and one of the people there was G4ALR. He doesn't = have his=20 e-mail on QRZ but I may be able to get it. I think he is an "expert" in = the=20 field.
 
If you like I will chase him for info?
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: = Graham=20 <g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk>
To: = rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20
Sent: Thursday, 11 = April=20 2013, 19:21
Subject: Re: LF:=20 Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

BOGOF     : ))

From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 7:17 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 = 236.75=20 KHz

Pat there's something up with your e-mail because it keeps = sending=20 the same thing twice? i.e. two e-mails for the price of = one.
 73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: pat <g4gvw@aol.com>
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Cc: M0FMT <m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk> =
Sent: Thursday, 11 April = 2013,=20 18:53
Subject: = Re: LF:=20 Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

Well, you might have been = happy,=20 Pete. I discovered that the family cat's whiskers wouldn't work with = a bit=20 of coke and we had to go back to a pair of baked bean cans and=20 string!




On 11/04/13 16:20, M0FMT wrote:
And we all live in a hole in the road but we were=20 happy!!.....:0)

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: pat mailto:g4gvw@aol.com
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Cc: M0FMT mailto:m0fmt@yahoo.co.uk=20
Sent: = Thursday, 11=20 April 2013, 13:06
Subject: Re: LF: Wanted = 10XJ or=20 FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

And Wireless Set No.17 = for=20 =A32:19:6 (2Volt accumulator and HT Battery 10/- = extra)

And we're=20 all getting older!

73




On 11/04/13 = 12:18,=20 M0FMT wrote:
Hi Graham
 
How young you are my introduction to Tottenham = Court Road=20 (Proops?) , Lisles Street (GW Smiths), Charring Cross =  and The=20 Edgeware Road  about 1956. Aaaaah those were the days. = learnt a lot = about=20 Radio, Life, the Universe and everything there......=20 hee!
Got my R107 from Lisle Street with money save from = my=20 apprentices pay. Carried it  (abt 1 CWT) via bus to Kings = Cross=20 in the days when the conductor would jump off the bus and give = you had=20 to get it on board........ imagine that on a "Bendy Bus" = today. See http://www.retinascope.co.uk/lislestreet.html fo= r=20 the full story.
 
OK on the stick info yes but I am CW only really = can't get=20 too excited about sterile data although as you know I do = partake occasionally.
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk=
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: = Thursday, 11=20 April 2013, 11:52
Subject: Re: LF: = Wanted 10XJ or=20 FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

R Pete
 
Well , its possible to  use the  = emergency =20 vfo  , but that  results  in a very =20 unstable  signal , I   remember  down = the =20 Tottenham court road , there  where  tea chests = of =20 crystals , but that  was  1970 .. seems  = a =20 lot  of the  traditional  firms have  = closed ,=20
 
One  of the  =A35  dds  with  = a=20 driver  would  work , but  they  want = to =20 keep  it  standard
 
DS -   That's really  the  = 'correct' =20 situation  ,  that  -33 db decode, = -3 db =20 lower than  normal  was  a  good =20 indication   that  the  system  is  = working=20 ,   over ranging  the  a/d  is = the  only  problem . I think  dynamic  = range=20 is  60 d b after  processing  , is = it   3=20 db per  bit  ?  8 bits  , 24  db +=20 3   that's   27 dB ?  500:1 ? =   ,=20 but   by  removing    = qty =20 2  mixers   and  2  = oscillators  =20 , [ may  be 3  oscillators  1 , = hf-up-conv  2 ,=20 pll  conv osc  3  ref osc )  that  = is=20 a  lot  of  noise + jitter  = removed  from=20 the  signal  path as well  as   = imd =20 from  2  mixers , I found  a attenuator  = helped  for  mw  and  I have  = a =20 mw-filter  , which  cleaned  up  = sw =20 bands  ......  nice to  have a  = panoramic =20 display , 2  mhz this time , the  ra17  was 1 = mhz  and   28  valves + 20 ish =  > in=20 the  radio   
 
73-G.
 

From: M0FMT
Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2013 10:47 AM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS = Range 236.25=20 236.75 KHz

OK Graham
 
Thought it was home brew retro.......... I am in = that=20 mode and think everbody else is! What do you do at the = moment inject=20 a Sig Genny?
 
Have you checked the net or checked out = Vincent -=20 QuartzLab etc?
 
Anyway what's that master osc circuit. I build = from old=20 RADCOM (pre 1975 when they published real amateur radio) and = PW,QST=20 etal. I use modern xtals with no known issues. Well trying = to get=20 third overtone for 10m not to chirp is an issue with me at = the=20 moment. 
 
OK yes got a stick on its way didn't want to tear = up my=20 existing upconverter design. But not sure there is much = wrong with=20 the UC approach it works for me. But want to try the direct=20 approach. Do you get much Cross mod and IM=20 products?

73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk=
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent: = Thursday,=20 11 April 2013, 0:47
Subject: Re: LF: = Wanted 10XJ=20 or FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

Ok Pete
 
Q where to  have  them  made  ? =
 
The  set  , Marconi  Ocean span = 1950's =20 valve  tx   needs  the  big  = rock's  as the  oscillator  = pass's  =20 quite a  lot  of  power  via them=20 ...hc6u  are  no  good  , drive level = is very=20 low - the ones fitted  are the wired- gold  = flashed  ones  , so  cannot  = etch  into=20 the  band ...
 
the  gang  want  to  keep  = it =20 standard
 
73 -G.
 
Ps  waiting  for  qty-3  = =A36  =20 dongles : )

From: M0FMT
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 11:43 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Subject: Re: LF: Wanted 10XJ or FT243 XTALS = Range=20 236.25 236.75 KHz

Hi
 
If you want to spend a small fortune get them = cut.=20 However build a Mixer VXO from El cheapo standard xtals = and or old=20 PMR rocks. Then at your next rally buy a couple of Screw = together=20 10xj or FT243 rocks of any frequency and put the El-cheapo = xtals=20 inside. And Hey Presto you have Retro rocks.
I have a small all valve 472 tx that uses 6.00=20 -6.472=3D0.472 vxo-able a couple of kc/s = 12ax7-6am6-6cl6=3D 4wattso/p.=20 Local QRP rig.
Hope this helps
 
73 es GL Pete M0FMT IO91UX
From: Graham mailto:g8fzk@g8fzk.fsnet.co.uk=
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.= org=20
Sent:=20 Wednesday, 10 April 2013, 20:30
Subject: LF: = Wanted 10XJ or=20 FT243 XTALS Range 236.25 236.75 KHz

Wanted  10XJ  or  FT243 =20 XTALS   Range   = 236.25   =20 236.75  KHz   
 
Q  Is there  any  manufacture =20 of   crystals  in this  range  = ?
 
Or  Surplus    = items  =20 available 
 
QTY 1  or  2  off 
 
TNX- Graham
 
=
G0NBD


=




<= BR>
--=20
73 de pat g4gvw
es gd dx
qth nr Felixstowe
East Coast =
UK




--=20
73 de pat g4gvw
es gd dx
qth nr Felixstowe
East Coast =
UK




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