Return-Path: Received: from post.thorcom.com (post.thorcom.com [195.171.43.25]) by mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com (Internet Inbound) with ESMTP id 02EFC38000091; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:27:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 4.14) id 1UPqM8-0002BM-9W for rs_out_1@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:26:12 +0100 Received: from [195.171.43.32] (helo=relay1.thorcom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 4.14) id 1UPqM7-0002BD-J6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:26:11 +0100 Received: from imr-mb02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.207.163]) by relay1.thorcom.net with esmtp (Exim 4.77) (envelope-from ) id 1UPqM4-0006c4-QZ for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 09:26:10 +0100 Received: from mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com [172.29.41.76]) by imr-mb02.mx.aol.com (Outbound Mail Relay) with ESMTP id A4B9A380000AD for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:25:46 -0400 (EDT) Received: from core-dfa001c.r1000.mail.aol.com (core-dfa001.r1000.mail.aol.com [172.29.54.131]) by mtaomg-mb05.r1000.mx.aol.com (OMAG/Core Interface) with ESMTP id 70A0DE000081 for ; Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:25:46 -0400 (EDT) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MB-Message-Source: WebUI X-MB-Message-Type: User MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Markus Vester X-Mailer: AOL Webmail 37614-BASIC Received: from 194.138.39.59 by webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com (205.188.58.129) with HTTP (WebMailUI); Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:25:46 -0400 Message-Id: <8D003DC2186450C-2380-33458@webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com> X-Originating-IP: [194.138.39.59] Date: Wed, 10 Apr 2013 04:25:46 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=mx.aol.com; s=20121107; t=1365582346; bh=EiTeC3qTNKrrr7VKaZOaMx8GkASbYL/0Bv5rg+TbOhc=; h=From:To:Subject:Message-Id:Date:MIME-Version:Content-Type; b=Md/neePF3P9j69l1S5s9rlKuC4aym4p4FIkot9/oVSIr4MsdlVwdH1mreHpoId30N 9K7yrgzSaEw1y5Ctqn22bM49BYt55kOGKYJBSM88z/yluy1E243cDvL+5EV4UBsO9D bV64SAT/PF7q2aWwYuMi7rUbp32/Jqbm5svbyz1Y= X-AOL-SCOLL-SCORE: 0:2:413944672:93952408 X-AOL-SCOLL-URL_COUNT: 0 X-Spam-Score: -0.6 (/) X-Spam-Report: Spam detection software, running on the system "relay1.thorcom.net", has identified this incoming email as possible spam. The original message has been attached to this so you can view it (if it isn't spam) or label similar future email. If you have any questions, see the administrator of that system for details. Content preview: Graham,  for a phase-coherent Op-32 transmission, the limit for correlation detection is about 21 dB continuous-carrier SNR in 0.5 mHz. This would scale to 7.5 dB in Edgar's noise bandwidth (11 mHz). Assuming he actually got about 12 dB (best half-hour average), there would be about 4 dB margin. But we wouldn't then claim that as a "first positive ID", as Stefan's callsign has already been pretty much perfectly readable in DFCW.  The preliminary Opera deep search version that Chris and I are currently running can be found on  df6nm.bplaced.net/opera/opds2h4.zip It is using data export from a dedicated SpecLab instance. The software seems to be running stable so far, but it will definitely require a couple more bugfixes and some explanations before it can be considered fit for general use.  Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) [...] Content analysis details: (-0.6 points, 5.0 required) pts rule name description ---- ---------------------- -------------------------------------------------- -0.0 RCVD_IN_DNSWL_NONE RBL: Sender listed at http://www.dnswl.org/, no trust [64.12.207.163 listed in list.dnswl.org] 0.0 FREEMAIL_FROM Sender email is commonly abused enduser mail provider (markusvester[at]aol.com) -0.0 SPF_PASS SPF: sender matches SPF record -2.4 RP_MATCHES_RCVD Envelope sender domain matches handover relay domain 1.8 URIBL_BLACK Contains an URL listed in the URIBL blacklist [URIs: bplaced.net] 0.0 HTML_MESSAGE BODY: HTML included in message 0.0 T_DKIM_INVALID DKIM-Signature header exists but is not valid X-Scan-Signature: ab5bdf47ba36025605d238f1a9b1d3ab Subject: Re: LF: Best results so far from Germany to Tasmania - Opera correlation? Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="--------MB_8D003DC223B2D8C_2380_BA3EB_webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com" X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 2.63 (2004-01-11) on post.thorcom.com X-Spam-Level: X-Spam-Status: No, hits=0.6 required=5.0 tests=FORGED_AOL_TAGS,HTML_40_50, HTML_FONTCOLOR_UNKNOWN,HTML_MESSAGE autolearn=no version=2.63 X-SA-Exim-Scanned: Yes Sender: owner-rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group X-SA-Exim-Rcpt-To: rs_out_1@blacksheep.org X-SA-Exim-Scanned: No; SAEximRunCond expanded to false x-aol-global-disposition: G X-AOL-SCOLL-AUTHENTICATION: mtain-mj03.r1000.mx.aol.com ; domain : mx.aol.com DKIM : pass x-aol-sid: 3039ac1d7b975165226621dc X-AOL-IP: 195.171.43.25 X-AOL-SPF: domain : blacksheep.org SPF : none This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ----------MB_8D003DC223B2D8C_2380_BA3EB_webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Graham,=20 =C2=A0 for a phase-coherent Op-32 transmission, the limit for correlation detectio= n=C2=A0is=C2=A0about 21 dB continuous-carrier SNR in 0.5 mHz. This would sc= ale to=C2=A07.5 dB in Edgar's noise bandwidth (11 mHz). Assuming he actuall= y got about 12 dB (best half-hour average), there would be about=C2=A04=C2= =A0dB margin. But=C2=A0we wouldn't then claim that as=C2=A0a "first positiv= e ID", as Stefan's callsign=C2=A0has already been=C2=A0pretty much=C2=A0per= fectly readable=C2=A0in DFCW. =C2=A0 The preliminary=C2=A0Opera deep search=C2=A0version that Chris and I are cu= rrently running can be found on =C2=A0df6nm.bplaced.net/opera/opds2h4.zip It is using=C2=A0data export from a dedicated SpecLab instance.=C2=A0The so= ftware=C2=A0seems to be running stable so far, but=C2=A0it will definitely= =C2=A0require=C2=A0a couple more bugfixes and some explanations before it c= an be considered=C2=A0fit for general use. =C2=A0 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =C2=A0 From: Graham=20 Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2013 1:18 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Subject: Re: LF: Best results so far from Germany to Tasmania =C2=A0''within easy reach of an Opera-32 correlation detection'' =C2=A0 ... That=C2=A0 could=C2=A0 also=C2=A0 mean=C2=A0 a=C2=A0 slightly=C2=A0 les= s=C2=A0 powerful , may be=C2=A0 10 dB=C2=A0 signal, originating=C2=A0 from = a=C2=A0 similar=C2=A0 location ,=C2=A0 over=C2=A0 the=C2=A0 same=C2=A0 path= =C2=A0 , may=C2=A0 provide a=C2=A0 OP32=C2=A0 correlation=C2=A0 detection= =C2=A0 and be the=C2=A0 first=C2=A0=C2=A0 positive=C2=A0call sign =C2=A0ID= =C2=A0 EU>VK=C2=A0 ... ? =C2=A0 G :-,) =C2=A0 =C2=A0 From: Markus Vester=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 7:49 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: Vasily Savchenko ; Edgar J Twining ; David - VK2DDI=20 Subject: Re: LF: Best results so far from Germany to Tasmania Edgar, Stefan, =C2=A0 this is an outstanding result! Great to see=C2=A0what is possible on LF, gi= ven a good antenna, a quiet location, and=C2=A0patience paired with persist= ence. =C2=A0 Did you by chance have a look at the best SNR in the spectrum plot? The fat= parts of=C2=A0the trace=C2=A0might have been=C2=A012 or even 15 dB, in a= =C2=A07.5 mHz FFT.=C2=A0This would put it=C2=A0within easy reach of an Oper= a-32 correlation detection, and=C2=A0possibly=C2=A0even close to a WSPR-15 = decode. =C2=A0 Alan, I assume that DST would affect attenuation globally, without preferen= ce for one direction or another. Or could=C2=A0an eastern path be better du= ring one night,=C2=A0versus westward in another? =C2=A0 Best 73, Markus (DF6NM) =C2=A0 From: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer=20 Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 2:09 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org=20 Cc: Vasily Savchenko ; Edgar J Twining ; David - VK2DDI=20 Subject: LF: Best results so far from Germany to Tasmania LF,=20 Last evening there was excellent LF propagation from EU to VK. Edgar J. Twi= ning (SWL) was watching the LF DX window for several weeks now. The season = on that path in spring (EU) 2013 was very poor and we already thought that = the season is over. However yesterday the path was open for a exceptional l= ong time and the S/N was very good! Transmissions were done in DFCW-180. I'= ve been on air for several days now and such a result is most probably poss= ible for 1 time in the year or maybe 2 years. These are the results: My signal: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DK7FC%20WR%20ver%20spectrum= %20-18.PNG DCF39: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DCF39%20WR%20ver%20spectrum%20-= 14.PNG DCF39 plot: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DCF39%20WR%20ver%20plot%20= 2013-04-08%2021-30.jpg The path is 16806 km, http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DQE37PD&from=3Djn4= 9ik00wd It shows once again that it is always worth to transmit and to receive/watc= h for exceptional conds(x) on the bands! Many thanks to Edgar for his continuous patience and interest to receive on= 137 kHz from the other side of the world! 73, Stefan/DK7FC ----------MB_8D003DC223B2D8C_2380_BA3EB_webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8"
Graham,
 
for a phase-coherent Op-32 transmission, the limit for correlation det= ection is about 21 dB continuous-carrier SNR in 0.5 mHz. This wou= ld scale to 7.5 dB in Edgar's noise bandwidth (11 mHz). Assuming he ac= tually got about 12 dB (best half-hour average), there would be about = 4 dB margin. But we wouldn't then cla= im that as a "first positive ID", as Stefan's callsign has alread= y been pretty much perfectly readable in DFCW.=
 
The preliminary Opera deep search&nbs= p;version that Chris and I are currently running can be found on
 df6nm.bplaced.net/opera/opds2h4.zip
It is using data export from a dedica= ted SpecLab instance. The software seems to be running stable so = far, but it will definitely require a couple more bugfixes a= nd some explanations before it can be considered fit for general use.<= /FONT>
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

F= rom: Graham
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 20= 13 1:18 AM
Subject: Re: LF: Best results= so far from Germany to Tasmania
=
 ''within easy reach of an Opera-32 c= orrelation detection''
 
... That  could  also  mean=   a  slightly  less  powerful , may be  10 dB = ; signal, originating  from a  similar  location ,  ove= r  the  same  path  , may  provide a  OP32&nb= sp; correlation  detection  and be the  first   po= sitive call sign  ID  EU>VK  ... ?
 
G :-,)
 
 

Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013= 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: LF: Best results= so far from Germany to Tasmania
=
Edgar, Stefan,
 
this is an outstanding result! Great to se= e what is possible on LF, given a good antenna, a quiet location, and&= nbsp;patience paired with persistence.
 
Did you by chance have a look at the best = SNR in the spectrum plot? The fat parts of the trace might have b= een 12 or even 15 dB, in a 7.5 mHz FFT. This would put it&nb= sp;within easy reach of an Opera-32 correlation detection, and possibl= y even close to a WSPR-15 decode.
 
Alan, I assume that DST would affect atten= uation globally, without preference for one direction or another. Or could&= nbsp;an eastern path be better during one night, versus westward in an= other?
 
Best 73,
Markus (DF6NM)
 

F= rom: Stefan Sch=C3=A4fer <= /div>
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013= 2:09 PM
Subject: LF: Best results so = far from Germany to Tasmania
=
LF,

Last evening there was excellent LF propagation from EU to VK. Edgar J. Twi= ning (SWL) was watching the LF DX window for several weeks now. The season = on that path in spring (EU) 2013 was very poor and we already thought that = the season is over. However yesterday the path was open for a exceptional l= ong time and the S/N was very good! Transmissions were done in DFCW-180. I'= ve been on air for several days now and such a result is most probably poss= ible for 1 time in the year or maybe 2 years.

These are the results:
My signal: https://d= l.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DK7FC%20WR%20ver%20spectrum%20-18.PNG
DCF39: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/19882028/LF/DCF3= 9%20WR%20ver%20spectrum%20-14.PNG
DCF39 plot: https://dl.dropbox.com= /u/19882028/LF/DCF39%20WR%20ver%20plot%202013-04-08%2021-30.jpg<= br>
The path is 16806 km, http://no.nonsense.ee/qthmap/?qth=3DQ= E37PD&from=3Djn49ik00wd

It shows once again that it is always worth to = transmit and to receive/watch for exceptional conds(x) on the bands!

Many thanks to Edgar for his continuous patience and interest to receive on= 137 kHz from the other side of the world!

73, Stefan/DK7FC
----------MB_8D003DC223B2D8C_2380_BA3EB_webmail-d149.sysops.aol.com--